jaffacake

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Posts by jaffacake

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  5

  Christian help please? asap to where or whom

  by carla in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how to answer= where do we go to if jw not right?

  i have tried the answer is not 'where' but to 'whom' (meaning jesus) any suggestions that a jw can understand?

  thanks as always, carla

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  jaffacake

  Hi Carla,

  I would simply suggest they look at how that question was answered in the Bible. The question was not about someone possibly leaving a religion or an organisation.
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  25

  When did God choose the WT to be the truth?

  by MegaDude in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  could someone direct me to a society publication or scan where the wt claims god picked them out of all the religions to be the truth?

  what year did this supposedly take place in?

  i'm prepping someone on how to talk to a jw they are in contact with.

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  jaffacake

  I picked out some Bible & Watchtower sources to use in discussions with JWs about this. Much is based on the excellent Captives of a Concept by Don Sutherland, available online.

  Sorry for length of article, but some of this may be of some use.

  BIBLE

  (2 Thessalonians 2:10-11) 10 and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. 11 So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie,

  (2 Corinthians 13:5)

  “Keep testing whether you are in the faith, keep proving what you yourselves are.”

  (Matthew 24:45-47) 45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.

  (Luke 12:36-37) . . ., so that at his arriving and knocking they may at once open to him. 37 Happy are those slaves whom the master on arriving finds watching. . .

  WATCHTOWER

  The Appointment in 1919

  WT 1990 3/15 p. 14 ‘The Faithful Slave’ and Its Governing Body

  21 In 1918, when Jesus Christ inspected those claiming to be his slaves, he found an international group of Christians publishing Bible truths for use both inside the congregation and outside in the preaching work. In 1919 it truly turned out to be as Christ had foretold: “Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.” (Matthew 24:46, 47) These true Christians entered into the joy of their Master. Having shown themselves “faithful over a few things,” they were appointed by the Master to be “over many things.” (Matthew 25:21) The faithful slave and its Governing Body were in place, ready for a widened assignment.

  WT 1994 1/15 pp. 16-17 Shepherds and Sheep in a Theocracy

  Jesus said that during his royal presence, he would identify a faithful body of followers, a “faithful and discreet slave,” and would appoint it over all his belongings. (Matthew 24:45-47; Isaiah 43:10) In 1919 that slave was identified as the remnant of anointed Christians. Since then, as represented by the Governing Body

  Book - Knowledge that leads to everlasting life chap. 17 p. 161 Find Security Among God’s People ***

  4 Jesus said that at the time of his presence in Kingdom power, “the faithful and discreet slave” would be found providing “food at the proper time” for His followers. (Matthew 24:45-47) When Jesus was installed as heavenly King in 1914, who did this “slave” prove to be? …. But proper and timely spiritual food was being dispensed by the group of true Christians who were anointed by God’s holy spirit …

  THE INSPECTION BY CHRIST IN 1919

  WT 2001 6/1 pp. 13-14 “If God Is for Us, Who Will Be Against Us?”

  Identifying Marks of Those Having God’s Backing

  7 They base their teachings on the Bible. Jesus said: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality.” And also: “He that is from God listens to the sayings of God.” (John 7:16, 17; 8:47) Logically, to enjoy God’s backing, one must teach only what God reveals in his Word and reject teachings based on human wisdom or tradition.—Isaiah 29:13; Matthew 15:3-9; Colossians 2:8.

  Book – God’s Kingdom Has Approached (F Franz) chap. 17 pp. 349-357 The “Slave” Who Lived to See the “Sign” ***

  TIME OF INSPECTION BY THE SLAVE’S MASTER

  38 Without a question of doubt, it was a real time for inspection of the Master’s “slave” class. All the facts of the case argue that the Master came for the work of inspection at the time. …Had his appointed slave done as he was assigned to do, namely, give to the “domestics” their “food at the proper time”? The master needed to make an inspection.

  40 The serving of food, the right sort of food, at the proper time was the issue. It had to be according to this that a decision must be rendered by the returned master….Down to 1919 C.E. they had endeavored to give “food at the proper time”…. Not only was the regularity in serving the spiritual food a problem, but the quality of the food itself was to be considered….

  ….three and a half years after the close of the Gentile Times and Christ’s enthronement in the heavens in 1914 C.E., there came the annual celebration of the Lord’s Supper on Tuesday, March 26, 1918…

  ....And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: ‘All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.’”—Matthew 28:16-20.

  46 The Lord Jesus explained why the state of the “faithful and discreet slave” was a happy one, for Jesus said: “Happy is that slave if his master on arriving [Greek: elthòn] finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.”—Matthew 24:46, 47; Luke 12:42-44.

  APPOINTED OVER ALL THE MASTER’S BELONGINGS

  ….. When he returned to his “household staff” in 1919 to make an inspection of all his “domestics,” he did so in a royal capacity ….

  51 On inspecting the remnant of his anointed disciples in the year 1919 C.E., the reigning King Jesus Christ did find the appointed “slave” faithful and discreet in the feeding of his “domestics.” Accordingly, he appointed this “slave” class over all his belongings. Their enlarged responsible position now was that of serving in fulfillment of the now due Kingdom prophecies. All through the centuries the “faithful and discreet slave” class has been made up of those who are “ambassadors substituting for Christ,

  And with what a spiritual table of Scriptural food they have been fed! The disposing of any remaining stocks of the Studies in the Scriptures by C. T. Russell and of The Finished Mystery in the year 1927 produced no shortage of spiritual food for these “domestics.” New and up-to-date bound books and booklets and tracts have continued to be published since the book The Harp of God in 1921. Yes, in October of 1919 a companion to The Watch Tower was published in the form of the magazine The Golden Age (now entitled “Awake!”).

  ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE AND WATCHTOWER JESUS WOULD HAVE APPLIED 4 TESTS AT HIS INSPECTION IN SPRING OF 1919.

  BASED ON WHAT THE WATCHTOWER HAD BEEN TEACHING Its Spiritual Food or its Fruit ( Matthew 7:15 and 12:33 & 37) DOWN TO 1919 (1876-1919)

  4 TESTS MUST BE APPLIED TO ALL THE TEACHINGS OF THAT PERIOD:

  RIGHT QUALITY SPIRITUAL FOOD?

  PROPER TIME TO BE TEACHING IT?

  ONLY WHAT GOD REVEALED IN HIS WORD?

  REJECTED ANYTHING BASED ON HUMAN WISDOM?

  Apply the 4 Biblical & Watchtower Tests to the following in 1919:

  • Teaching about the Second Coming (or presence) of Christ
  • Who was the faithful & discreet slave?
  • The invention of the sewing machine was the first sign of Christ’s invisible reign in 1873
  • Millions Now Living Will Never Die campaign – accuracy
  • Return of Abraham Isaac & Jacob in 1925
  • 1799 start of last days (time of the end
  • 37 other dates of events that did not happen
  • Celebrating Christmas
  • Celebrating birthdays
  • Worshiping Jesus
  • Use of the Cross
  • Great Pyramid of Gizeh God’s stone witness
  • Use of occultism and Masonic symbolism
  • End of all governments & kingdoms by 1914
  • The 1200 furlongs of Revelation 14:20
  • Romans 13:1
  • Six Volumes of Studies in the Scriptures
  • The Finished Mystery (seventh volume)
  • The Harp of God book
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  25

  When did God choose the WT to be the truth?

  by MegaDude in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  could someone direct me to a society publication or scan where the wt claims god picked them out of all the religions to be the truth?

  what year did this supposedly take place in?

  i'm prepping someone on how to talk to a jw they are in contact with.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  jaffacake

  Spring 1919.

  Book – God’s Kingdom Has Approached (F Franz) chap. 17 pp. 349-357 The “Slave” Who Lived to See the “Sign” ***

  TIME OF INSPECTION BY THE SLAVE’S MASTER

  38 Without a question of doubt, it was a real time for inspection of the Master’s “slave” class. All the facts of the case argue that the Master came for the work of inspection at the time. …Had his appointed slave done as he was assigned to do, namely, give to the “domestics” their “food at the proper time”? The master needed to make an inspection.

  40 The serving of food, the right sort of food, at the proper time was the issue. It had to be according to this that a decision must be rendered by the returned master….Down to 1919 C.E. they had endeavored to give “food at the proper time”…. Not only was the regularity in serving the spiritual food a problem, but the quality of the food itself was to be considered….

  APPOINTED OVER ALL THE MASTER’S BELONGINGS

  ….. When he returned to his “household staff” in 1919 to make an inspection of all his “domestics,” he did so in a royal capacity ….

  51 On inspecting the remnant of his anointed disciples in the year 1919 C.E., the reigning King Jesus Christ did find the appointed “slave” faithful and discreet in the feeding of his “domestics.” Accordingly, he appointed this “slave” class over all his belongings.

  Please use the link to check just a small sample of the quality of spiritual food that allegedly led to the appointment by Christ of the FDS in 1919:

  http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/88.htm
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  9

  Do convereted jews believe that Jesus is Jehovah?

  by RevFrank in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i debate with witnesses and it comes to scripture about jesus making statements that lead to jews thinking jesus is making statements that he is god..many of witnesses denie that jesus was telling the jews that he was god.

  i make them turn to john 10:33--->>>there the jews argue about it.

  and when they read it..they try to explain,witnesses, it states something different.. witnesses do denie the exsistance of the trinity.

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  jaffacake

  Interesting. Sorry to go off topic, but I wonder from where folks get the doctrine that the scriptures are verbally inerrant. Not from the Scriptures, which teach us something quite different - those of us who are Christians.
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  3

  Happy Thanksgiving, Yall!!

  by Frannie Banannie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been in the kitchen most of the day baking pies and making dressing and giblet gravy......interspersed with dog- and baby-sitting my 3 g/daughters

  i baked some beautiful pumpkin and pecan pies and got the rest of the pie shells pre-baked for the coconut, chocolate & white chocolate cream pies and lemon meringue pies (12 pies in all) cause we're taking some of the food over to my daughter's in-laws' tomorrow, then coming back to take care of the rest of our feast here.

  by the time my daughter came home from work, my butt was draggin....so i decided to go to my room and take some excedrin for my back pain.....after about 30 mins.

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  jaffacake

  Can someone explain to me ..when, and what, is thanksgiving. Is it bigger than Christmas in the US?
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  22

  Jehovah is a misspelled Hebrew word for "lord"

  by biddie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  did you know that jehovah is really a miss-spelled word in hebrew from the word adonai in hebrew?.

  .

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  jaffacake

  One cannot seriously believe similtaneously in the authenticity of the Bible, and also belief that the Tetragrammaton ever existed in the Greek Christian Scriptures. My study using JW Bibles was inspired by the (non apostate) book The Tetragrammaton & the Christian Greek Scriptures: In my opinion this is the biggest scandal of all. Any derivative of the Tetragram, such as Jahweh or Jehovah belongs in the Hebrew scriptures (OT) but not in the Christian Greek (NT). Its use in the NT contravenes God's purpose, if like me you are a Christian who accepts the authenticity of the ancient manuscripts. http://www.tetragrammaton.org/itm00007.htm

  TETRAGRAMMATON STUDY

  Reasoning from the Scriptures*** rs p. 64 pars. 1-3 Bible ***

  A report published in 1971 shows that there are possibly 6,000 handwritten copies containing all or part of the Hebrew Scriptures; the oldest dates back to the third century B.C.E. Of the Christian Greek Scriptures, there are some 5,000 in Greek, the oldest dating back to the beginning of the second century C.E. There are also many copies of early translations into other languages.

  In the introduction to his seven volumes on The Chester Beatty Biblical Papyri, Sir Frederic Kenyon wrote: “The first and most important conclusion derived from the examination of them [the papyri] is the satisfactory one that they confirm the essential soundness of the existing texts. No striking or fundamental variation is shown either in the Old or the New Testament. There are no important omissions or additions of passages, and no variations which affect vital facts or doctrines. The variations of text affect minor matters, such as the order of words or the precise words used . . . But their essential importance is their confirmation, by evidence of an earlier date than was hitherto available, of the integrity of our existing texts.”—(

  It is true that some translations of the Bible adhere more closely to what is in the original languages than others do. Modern paraphrase Bibles have taken liberties that at times alter the original meaning. Some translators have allowed personal beliefs to color their renderings. But these weaknesses can be identified by comparison of a variety of translations.

  The Bible – God’s word or man’s *** gm chap. 5 pp. 59-60 The “New Testament”—History or Myth? ***

  Is the Text Trustworthy?

  9 Is it possible that these eyewitness testimonies were accurately recorded but later corrupted? In other words, were myths and legends introduced after the original writing was completed? We have already seen that the text of the Christian Greek Scriptures is in better condition than any other ancient literature. Kurt and Barbara Aland, scholars of the Greek text of the Bible, list almost 5,000 manuscripts that have survived from antiquity down to today, some from as early as the second century C.E. 8 The general testimony of this mass of evidence is that the text is essentially sound. Additionally, there are many ancient translations—the earliest dating to about the year 180 C.E.—that help to prove that the text is accurate. 9

  10 Hence, by any reckoning, we can be sure that legends and myths did not infiltrate into the Christian Greek Scriptures after the original writers finished their work. The text we have is substantially the same as the one that the original writers penned, and its accuracy is confirmed by the fact that contemporaneous Christians accepted it.

  NWT Jehovah References

  92 direct quotes from Hebrew Scriptures

  20 indirect references where the context includes the Divine Name

  112 in total are proper quotations of the Divine Name

  That leaves 125 instances not quotations of Hebrew Scripture. Of these NWT claims 58 contained a subject or parallel thought reference and another 6 where the cross refernce merely includes other subjects related to the Greek Scripture verse. (64 in total)

  This leaves 61 insertions in NWT with no cross reference source of any kind to a Hebrew Scripture quotation source.

  237 instances (26 modern Hebrew versions versus >5000 ancient Greek manuscripts)

  Canon of Scripture closed at the beginning of the second century CE.

  Insight on the Scriptures Vol I *** it-1 p. 409 Canon ***

  By the end of the second century there was no question but that the canon of the Christian Greek Scriptures was closed…

  P410 *** Multiple Articles ***

  With the death of John, the last apostle, this reliable chain of divinely inspired men came to an end, and so with the Revelation, John’s Gospel, and his epistles, the Bible canon closed.

  Watchtower 1963 April 15 p. 248 Early Catalogues and the Christian Greek Scripture Canon ***

  reference is made to the Councils of Hippo (A.D. 393) and (A.D. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated. The opposite is true, however, for the canon was already settled by then, not by the decree of any council, but by the usage of Christian congregations throughout the ancient world. Says one authority, “It goes without saying that the Church, understood as the entire body of believers, created the Canon . . . it was not the reverse; it was not imposed from the top, be it by bishops or synods

  WHAT LANGUAGE DID GOD CHOOSE AS THE VEHICLE OF COMMUNICATION FOR THE LATTER PORTION OF THE BIBLE (CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES)?

  Koine Greek

  FOUR QUESTIONS:

  1. Do the majority of the earliest extant Christian Scripture manuscripts show the Tetragrammaton or a reasonable derivative embedded in the Greek text?
  2. Do any of the early and abundant extant manuscripts of the Christian Greek Scriptures show evidence of the Tetragram’s removal?
  3. Do the enormous volumes of writings by the early church fathers record any debate ensuing from the Tetragrammaton’s removal?
  4. Do any early non-canonical writings include reference to the Tetragrammaton?Is the Tetragrammaton identifiable in Christian Scriptures written in the Hebrew language during the early church era? Eg link with Shem Tob recension?

  All Scripture…*** si p. 319 Study Number 6—The Christian Greek Text of the Holy Scriptures ***

  28 Evaluation of Textual Transmission. What, then, is the net evaluation as to textual integrity and authenticity, after these many centuries of transmission? Not only are there thousands of manuscripts to compare but discoveries of older Bible manuscripts during the past few decades take the Greek text back as far as about the year 125 C.E., just a couple of decades short of the death of the apostle John about 100 C.E. These manuscript evidences provide strong assurance that we now have a dependable Greek text in refined form. Note the evaluation that the former director and librarian of the , Sir Frederic Kenyon, put on this matter:

  29 “The interval then between the dates of original composition and the earliest extant evidence becomes so small as to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation for any doubt that the Scriptures have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed.

  THE STUDY

  The Sources:

  • Translation Reference Edition (NWT RE)
  • Kingdom Interlinear Translation (KIT)

  NWT RE Appendix 1D page 1565
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  1

  Evolution and the "Dialog of the Deaf"

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this article is a bit dated but still is one of the best i've ever read about the continuing evolution/creation debate.

  he calls for a "third way".

  to explain life's origins - something i heartily applaud since my sympathies lean towards pantheism and the notion that life is .

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  jaffacake

  
  A very good article, and so true.

  Even in this relatively enlightened forum there is often a tendency for people to polarise towards one of two opposing theories/beliefs, with entrenched debating positions.

  Darwinian theory was a huge step forward, but is not the answer, just the best approximation of its time. Just as Newtonion physics was not the answer in the field of physics - but a marvellous advance which led to, and still leads to new understanding.

  All good stuff - thanks.
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  13

  Can you help me with some one who is not baptised as JW yet? The story:

  by Curious Christian in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my best friend is a stone's throw from jw baptism.

  she told me she is not celebrating christmas this year.

  (this is a gal who used to make it a point to "mend fences" with disgruntled friends and boy friends, in order to trade gifts!

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  jaffacake

  Getting to read books such as those suggested above is the best way to expose the organisation for what it really is.
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  22

  New here - question about roommate getting baptized

  by oppgirl63 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been lurking on different ex-jw boards for a few years now and this is my first post to this board.. .

  i am a 42 yr old gay female who has a roommate who is studying to be baptized.

  we are not romantically involved.

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  jaffacake

  Hello and Welcome,

  I've never been a JW but my lifelong best friend was baptised earlier this year. When she gets baptised, your friendship will soon be over, sooner rather than later, although your friend does not know that yet.

  I've been through the same experience that you will go through.

  I am not gay, my friend and I were each best man at each other's weddings in the early eighties. We have been friends since 12 (now 47) closer than brothers all that time. Our wives are (were) close too and all our kids. I researched the JW indoctrination process and told my friend in February that in just a few months we would no longer associate with each other, or be friends. He would never phone me etc etc. He denied this would happen and promised me we would remain friends.

  Within a month of that conversation, even before his baptism, communication stopped. He found many excuses, but we only speak when I phone him.

  It is probably too late to expose the JWs. There are many books that can help such as Captives of a Concept, by Don Cameron - a poster on this board. It can be ordered online. Another book you could try to persuade her to read, secretly, before making her final commitment is Crisis of Conscience from the Commentary Press website. http://www.commentarypress.com/booklist-eng.html

  I wish you well in your difficult situation. This religion destroys lives and friendships. I'll pm you with my email address in case I can offer any help or suggestions.
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  13

  Can you help me with some one who is not baptised as JW yet? The story:

  by Curious Christian in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my best friend is a stone's throw from jw baptism.

  she told me she is not celebrating christmas this year.

  (this is a gal who used to make it a point to "mend fences" with disgruntled friends and boy friends, in order to trade gifts!

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  jaffacake

  Hi, and a Warm welcome,

  I hope you succeed where I have failed with my lifelong best friend. I was a few months too late finding out about JWs.

  I'll give this some serious thought. Just now, after a year of intensive research and trying everything to stop my friend making such a terrible mistake, I am now emotionally drained.

  If you let me have an email address I'll send some ideas I have. What reading have you tried to help you with the sort of questions to ask?