Guess I should finish before making any real judgements. It seems that most of the books have the same info. I read the Four Pres. as well and thought it was good. Each book may have something in a little more detail though. Still can't get through Gentile Times! Maybe because I still can't understand the whole jw view of it first. And I don't care enough about that particular subject, it becomes even more of a chore than the other books.
Posts by carla
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9The Four Presidents of the Watch Tower quote:
by AK - Jeff in"just as a shaky foundation is no place on which to build a house, the watch tower society provides no firm support for a person to build a solid faith in our heavenly father, based upon his word, and the simple teachings of our savior, christ jesus.
it is far removed from the simple teachings of jesus and the completely voluntary act of being a christian.
the four presidents of the watch tower society (jehovah's witnesses) - edmond c gruss [editor] page 116 [soft cover edition].
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carla
aw, thanks kls and jeff. Won't get me anywhere in my own situation but if it stops someone else from going through the cult, why not? When they/he find out I'm sure all will hit the fan! until then....
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9
The Four Presidents of the Watch Tower quote:
by AK - Jeff in"just as a shaky foundation is no place on which to build a house, the watch tower society provides no firm support for a person to build a solid faith in our heavenly father, based upon his word, and the simple teachings of our savior, christ jesus.
it is far removed from the simple teachings of jesus and the completely voluntary act of being a christian.
the four presidents of the watch tower society (jehovah's witnesses) - edmond c gruss [editor] page 116 [soft cover edition].
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carla
I'm in the middle of Apocaypse Delayed now. Do you find Penton almost sympathetic towards Russell?
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carla
No different than what you do. We both are putting things out there that we truly believe. Besides it was jw husband's idea that I start an anticult ministry. Can't help it if he doesn't remember saying that. Husband says nothing is more important than getting the truth out, so I do! And there is nothing you or any jw can refute cause it's all from your own literature.
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Showing Self Control
by Cori inwe spent some time at the in-laws this past weekend (they are very serious jws) and i literally became sick to my stomach.. how does those that are fading handle the visits with family or in-laws that are still jw?
how do you contain the constant need to blow up and answer everything they are spewing??.
btw, sunday came around, and we went to breakfast in the morning.missed the meeting without a hint of regret.
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carla
Why don't you make a deal with them? tell them you will go to a meeting if they can prove 1914/1919 or give you reasons for all the flip flops, why are they the fds, UN, 586/607, etc... using sources other than the wt's? Heck, even using the bible would suffice!
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Abusers or abusive?
by ozziepost in.
many are the accounts we read of abuse suffered at the hands of jws.
we only have to read the personal experiences forum to realise that, with the experiences of emotional and mental abuse, the bullying by elders, and so on... still, it begs the question, are the perpetrators abusers or an abusive organisation?
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carla
Nathan posted my response first!
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carla
No door to door work for me, but I did 'place' a few antiwitness stuff in public places. Does that count?
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Solution for "Unbelieving Mates" - Confront Quietly
by jgnat inthis is the second in a series of solutions i am building to help newbie "unbelieving mates" (ubm)'s deal with their partners studying with the witnesses.
ubm's initially have no idea how pervasive the watchtower lifestyle can mess with their marriage.
i'd like to provide ubm's with the tools they need to communicate with their jw partner, fight for their rights, and stay informed.
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carla
That's all well and good, and even correct. However, jw's, even if they don't verbalize it, don't think much of nonjw's anyway. Anybody who has a dissenting opinion is not only wrong but evil. Think about it, you go to a Christian church jgnat, therefore you are part of satan. And often it is the jw who starts getting, shall we say 'zealous' in their delivery. You can see they are not listening. Simply thinking of what should be said next. Give them a question they can't answer they will change the subject. Try as you might to be as cordial as possible to say something like, 'yes we can get to that another time if you like, but we were discussing x right now'. Then comes the villification that you won't talk about hellfire or war and evil christendom! Once their eyes glaze over you might as well give it up for the moment. You don't have long either. It' s not like you can have an actual discussion as with normal people. A conversation involves (at least) two people who actually listen to what the other person says, then responds. Jw's are not taught to listen to anybody outside of dub land.
If they were able to actually discuss, using their own brain it would mean something. Instead of the canned crap I can read in the wt's. The sheer intellectual laziness on their part is most frustrating. Many things with a minimum of research can shed 'new light' on many of the jw doctrines. We do not need to learn from jw's how to use the so called 'soft voice' (which I don't hear frm my jw) We need military training! I will not go to a hall ever. The elder basically admitted he let a child molester go back into our community and into that hall. Sorry, I can't see myself socializing with a child molester and having to be the model of decorum.
I agree sometimes you just need to take a break from it all and let it go for the time being just for your own sanity. The problem with that is the jw thinks, 'oh good she's finally getting used to this, life is good'. When nothing could be further from the truth. You may just be trying to figure out how to live your life without that person. You may or may not continue to live with that person but either way there is a huge wedge there. You realize you must make some kind of life without them. Or only having them part time. So you settle until you can figure out what the hell to do next. How sad that word even came out of my mouth! settle. We are supposed to be calm and collective even though our spouses have joined an org that destroys families, relationships, sacrifices their children, protects sexual abusers, you know the list! Being calm is the right thing to do. Outwardly we can even fake it. How well do you think they would take it if we joined the Wiccans or some other group? Your butt would out that door so fast it would make your head spin.
What makes any ubm think they are really worthy of truth from their jw? Did you miss the revision of the word 'lie'? If it serves their purpose their religion will come first even if it includes lying to a mate they truly do love. Like it or not that's the way it is. Your fooling yourself if you think otherwise. I too once thought, we are different, our love is stronger and so on. I've heard it a million times now on the various boards. I have seen ubm's who are understanding and even helpful to their jw, I have seen ubm's who go public with antiwitness activity, I have seen umb's who just let the whole damn thing drop and no one has the magic bullet. Muddle through until you find what works with your mate I guess.
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MICHAEL, Jesus or someone else?
by cyberguy inwhat is your view?
is the michael in the bible jesus or someone else?
i've heard and read much debate on this important question, but i would appreciate your views!
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carla
Have you read Hebrews, at least the first page?
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Itemized List of Revisions in Daniel Book
by Severus inthis is from an email provided by a circuit overseer.
i have added comments and context (from wt cd 2003) in red.. .
"daniel's prophecy".
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carla
I'm confused, they don't tell the r & f of these changes do they? They don't put these changes out as 'new light', just kind of sneak it in and let the cong muddle through? When asking husband about, why are there so many changes in books & literature but they don't inform anybody of these changes? he just says they correct things. So I ask what if someone has a different edition? Then it's their responsibility to get the new ones. My point was that they don't tell people about these changes and it looks dishonest. Furthermore they don't claim it as 'new light'. Only the r& f do when questioned about the printing discrepancies.
What if old sister so and so doesn't get a new one but is teaching door to door from her older edition? Wouldn't the r & f be teaching a lot of confusion out there?
If they were honest about these changes they themselves would point them out in the begining of the book. Changes have been made at.....