i attended an ex witness group for the first time a couple of weeks ago and a comment made was that jw's are just like any other religion (cathlics, lutherans) in that when someone breaks away from it the same reactions are made from the persons family and ex members such as not talking to them, claiming that the new religion is wrong, dismissal from the congregation because of wrongdoing (fornication) and other cultish stuff that the jw's inflict on us ex's.
is anyone else from another religion that can verify this?
i dont think this is true.
No witnesses are pretty extreme in my view on this.
Lot of churches use to be the same extreme as the JW's, but that is long gone.
Some more fundamental protestants do the same.
For mainstream muslims it is pretty much the same, shunning of family members if you become something else.
others I have not heard of
for a long time, before working with people in this situation, i would have answered this question with .... "i feel for them and i know how degrading it must be, to come to this point in their life to have to depend on the government to sustain them" .
... once i got up close and personal with these people, i have learned that my answer only applies to a small group of those on government assistance.
well from my experience, those on government assistance are more often about taking advantage of the system, then they are about actually being in need of help.
How do I feel about that?
Well, I think the system is a bit different here.
But it really depends on the person and the history of that person. For example, if he will become without job because he is fired for some reason, then it would be logical to give him money. He worked maybe all his life for it, and payed taxes for it. They get 70% of the last salary for one year. Thereafter they get less. The are obliged to apply for new jobs. (otherwise they get less)
For people being to ill to work, they get some money also. They worked for this also, and payed taxes. They are tested each year by a doctor to see if they really can not work, even not work part-time (then they get less money, and asked so look for a part-time job).
People who are more then 65 years old, mostly have saved money in funds from the companies they worked for. But everyone older then 65 will get government aid, because they worked for this their whole life.
Then there is another group, not in one of the 3 catagories mentioned above. They get the least.
They will get around 700 us$ to 1200 us$ depending on the personal situation. You only get this if you do not have enough money on the bank etc. Lot of times people do not want to work in this catagory, and here are some difficult situations in this catagory. Single parents etc.
But I think only a minority makes misuse of the system. Making misuse of the system is not getting this money if you do not really need it badly. Making misuse is getting this money if you do not qualify for it.
by the way, I do not think there is anything denigrating about receiving government help.
DB
what was/is one of the most annoying things for me at the meetings, was the amount of non-information that the watchtower gives.. it is like rading the entire wt or whatever book and all that they basically say is like: preach more, or whatever.. when you look at the (mirrors of) the quotes site, you see very few interesting quotes of the last 25 years or so.
just because they basically do not say anything at all.
do you feel the same way?
1) The witnesses get information, but the most discriminating things are more on a hear say basis.
2) The repeating of the "basic stuff" is information only not knowlegde
I just wonder how they can do it, to say actually that little on all important issues
what was/is one of the most annoying things for me at the meetings, was the amount of non-information that the watchtower gives.. it is like rading the entire wt or whatever book and all that they basically say is like: preach more, or whatever.. when you look at the (mirrors of) the quotes site, you see very few interesting quotes of the last 25 years or so.
just because they basically do not say anything at all.
do you feel the same way?
What was/is one of the most annoying things for me at the meetings, was the amount of non-information that the watchtower gives.
It is like rading the entire WT or whatever book and all that they basically say is like: preach more, or whatever.
When you look at the (mirrors of) the quotes site, you see very few interesting quotes of the last 25 years or so. Just because they basically do not say anything at all.
Do you feel the same way?
heres one for you all,.
what did you used to do out witnessing to make it a little more fun that it really was?.
my best friend misspeaches and i were regularly partnered up to go door knocking.
sometimes we went to small vilages with the bike, like more then 1 hour with cycling, for very few houses. When it was nice weather.
Help brothers on small island and make a kind of holyday out of it.
take a chick in the FS, and try do to anything not related to the fields service
go to some sick old interested ones when it was cold, to get some coffee, and be indoors for a while
etc
i was told that ( by the husband) that child molesting is brought up often at the meeting and how it is up to the family if the police should be notified.
now i know it is not favored to call the police but has anyone heard these talks on molesting at the meetings?
anything about molestings?.
There was not much about child molest in last years meetings.
There is one talk in which the script, says something about child molest common in catholic church or something. We had that talk recently.
congratulations, but I am catching up.
That is why I post this nosense message :)
is it ever better or ethical to let someone go on believing in the truth even though it is a lie?
I think it is a very difficult question, and it really depends on the circumstances
I asked this also myself one time already: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/93448/1.ashx
some say yes, some say no....
DB
i've commented before that the watchtower goes out of its way to label groups of people it doesn't want you to like -- "worldly people", "apostates", "christendom".
there are scores of these labels.. people in general use them too: "spick", "n*gger", "trailer trash".
once we allow ourselves to refer to people by a label, we automatically change them from an individual to a member of a group.
I think it is okay to use things like dubs, whitless etc, for the group of people. Because they have the choice to join or leave the group.
It stands for the lies and pain that they have caused us. It is more directed at the organisation then at the persons in it, IMHO.
And those names aren't to harsh, they tell more of a pity for the persons then hate.
I've also no problems with name calling for the GB.
But as for individuals I think we should not do this too much. There are a lot of wonderfull, kind, righteous and friendly witnesses.
(with exceptions here of course, as some brothers/sisters deserve it).
p.s. Abbadon, you should fresh-up your dutch a bit
God, in Dutch EVERYTHING can be a diminutive; de oliphant -> het oliphantje, de man-> het manchje (not to sure about the spelling of the last - the diminutive tage is '+je' or '+chje' phonetically speaking, and varies according to the word).
It is olifant -> olifantje. man -> mannetje (there are some rules for it)
And other languages have it too, spanish -ito), italian etc.
DB
an ever growing number of witnesses would like to leave the organization - but how?
you may have an extended family "in the truth".. all your "friends" ( and that word "friends" deserves to be put in quotes ) may be "in the truth".
you may not be in any position to make.
Some say that DA is better. yes maybe it is good to make a stand. But you have little change in helping others to get out after that, except for that one final eyeopener.
Some think fading is better, we do not have to be martyrs. When we are not DA/DF'd we can help others better maybe. But then you always live the lie.
I'm busy with the fade thing, but do not know if I could make it. I do not think that fading is easier.
I think that moving, only to break away is a big thing to do. Moving has such a big impact.
You can just go to another congregation. Make or fake a big argument with a wiseass brother or sister, and say you can;t stand him anymore and go to other congregation. Of course you get counseling, but who cares. This moving happens a lot. Then repeat this 3 times or so, coming to the meetings less and less (so they care less and less). Tell the elders each time another congregation then you will show up. At the last congregation tell to some brothers and sisters you are going because you do not like it here, to yet another congregation, name your original one.
Your card will get lost somewhere, or will keep circling, until nobody cares.
