Posts by Jeffro

127

OK..Seriously..Has GOD ever answered your prayers????

by DATA-DOG in

look...i am not an atheist.

even so, i have never had one prayer answered my entire life.

the only thing that would even come close was learning ttatt.

Jeffro

Vanderhoven7:

I told her she needed a Christian to pray for her.
“Do you know a Christian?" She asked.

Why would she bother asking that? Who other than a self-professed Christian would tell some old lady she 'needs a Christian to pray for her'?!

I paused for a moment, thinking, his faith was just as weak as my own. Finally I blurted out, “I'm a Christian, I will pray for you.” She was happy with that. So as she sat there I placed my hand on her head a began to pray....when all of a sudden, I started speaking with bold authority in the power of the Spirit...and she lost consciousness.
I sat there waiting for her to wake up. When she finally did she was calm and collected. She walked over to me and took my hands and said...”These hands...you could make money...."

So... what you're saying is... an old agitated lady fainted, and she was calm after she regained concsciousness. Calm is pretty much the default just after regaining consciousness. What would you expect?!

That's possibly the least convincing example of 'answered prayer' I've ever heard.

8

"Watchtower's Achilles' Heel" is available in Spanish

by Doug Mason in

the watchtowers achilles heel is available in spanish.. if reasoning with a jw on the governing bodys interpretations such as of the kingdom of god, parousia, the cross, blood, and so on is unlikely to break the governing bodys mental stranglehold, what then is its achilles heel?.

my study: the watchtowers achilles heel answers that question.

http://www.jwstudies.com/the_watchtower_s_achilles__heel.pdf.

Jeffro

Good work. It's obvious that the 'Governing Body' is not a biblical teaching, but your analysis gives a very good overview of why.

I'm not sure that Paul receiving 'visions' is particularly compelling stuff in general to motivate any rational person to believe that the Bible contains anything approaching an accurate history of Christianity. However, it is quite interesting from the perspective of JW (and Christian) belief that the accounts are contradictory.

43

607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

by objectivetruth in

hi everyone,.

i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

Jeffro

never a jw:

Even though humor doesn't seem to be your forte,

Evidently you don't understand what means.

I stilll appreciate your great work

Thanks.

Sorry if I sounded flippant.

Sorry if I didn't.

43

607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

by objectivetruth in

hi everyone,.

i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

Jeffro

never a jw:

Hey Jetro,

Jeffro.

I have kept correspondence with some apostates, even well known ones. I have done few translations to Spanish for them. The problem is that they live thousands of miles from California. I want to meet an apostate before I quit this JW business (when my children are out, few others too, why not). I want to find out if apostates have horns and tails. Hey, if they sit at the table of demons, horns and tails can be expected.

The term 'apostate' is used pejoratively by JWs. I do not identify as an apostate, as I have never been convinced that JW doctrines are true.

I'm not aware of any correlation between apostasy and the presence of a vestigial tail or cutaneous horns.

If you live somewhere near L.A., food is on me. You choose the place and I bring the credit card.

Thanks for the offer, but I do not live anywhere near California. Not even the same continent.

43

607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

by objectivetruth in

hi everyone,.

i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

Jeffro

TD:

I hate to be the fly in the punch bowl here (Because I think 607 BC is hogwash) but Luke 21:24 is actually a text book example of what is called the periphrastic progressive.

It should be noted that in addition to the fact that the grammar of Luke 21:24 indicates that the trampling (and the falling by the sword and the being led captive) was actually yet future, the Greek text of Luke 21:24 separately uses a future-tense verb (ἔσονται) in reference to the 'Gentile Times', further indicating that the alleged period had not yet begun.

43

607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

by objectivetruth in

hi everyone,.

i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

Jeffro

never a jw:

I am sure I can impress few people with this, even though I have no idea what the hell I am talking about.

Yes, I think few will be impressed by that. But if you'd said something more impressive, perhaps a few would be impressed.

43

607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

by objectivetruth in

hi everyone,.

i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

Jeffro

TD:

Continuance and customariness are two different lexical contexts

Continuance indicates an on-going action (e.g. Earth orbits the sun) whereas customariness indicates an action that is performed at intervals (e.g. I wash my hair).

That distinction is not relevant to the context of Burton's demonstration that both his examples (Luke 5:10 and 21:24) refer to things that start in the future, and then continue (or become customary).

At some point in the distant past (before the formation of Earth), an imaginary observer could employ the periphrastic progressive to say:

Earth will orbit the sun (continuance)
Jeffro will wash his hair (customariness)
Jerusalem will be trampled (continuance)
Simon, James and John will 'catch men' (but not in a gay way) (customariness)

In all these cases, it is a future event that continues in some manner.

Once the action has already started, saying it 'will happen' is no longer an instance of the periphrastic future progressive but the standard future progressive.

43

607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

by objectivetruth in

hi everyone,.

i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

Jeffro

TD:

I've already pointed out that 5:10 and 21:24 are two different lexical contexts and by my own reasoning

You're free to believe whatever you like. But your claim is not supported by the source material. Burton considers both examples to employ the exact same grammatical structure rather than 'two different lexical contexts'. So, claim that Luke 21:24 refers to an existing condition if you like, but don't claim that Burton supports your view. In fact, the only difference between the future 'trampling' and the other future events indicated at Luke 21:24 is that the others refer to a specific future event whereas the trampling would continue.

If anything, I'm claiming that Jerusalem was already under the heel of Rome at the time the words were allegedly spoken

'Already under the heel' is your own commentary, and has no bearing on the intended meaning of the future 'trampling'. As such, the association of the then-present situation under Rome (i.e. your own idiomatic description of the earlier situation under Rome as 'under the heel') with a future 'trampling' is an equivocation fallacy.

43

607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

by objectivetruth in

hi everyone,.

i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

Jeffro

TD:

Burton said the periphrastic future can indicate continuance or it can indicate customariness and gives an example of each.

Yes. But in each case, he refers to something that starts in the future and then continues, i.e. something that starts in the future and then becomes customary.

As indicated by Burton's examples, the concept of the Periphrastic Future refers to an action that starts in the future and then continues, as distinct from the standard Progressive Future, which may indicate an event that continues in to the future. (Compare Burton's example of the Progressive Future at Phillipians 1:18, where it indicates an action that is already happening and will continue to happen in the future.)

Are you claiming that Simon, James & John were already 'catching men' before they initially became disciples??

43

607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

by objectivetruth in

hi everyone,.

i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

Jeffro

TD:

The interpolation is certainly his as you can see from this partial scan of page 36:

I'm not saying the interpolation isn't there. I'm saying you are misconstruing it. Look at the other verse (Luke 5:10) as an example. It very clearly does not refer to an action that had already started. See also my response above.

Burton is saying:

'Simon, James and John will become catchers of men and then continue to catch men.'
'Jerusalem will become trampled and then continue to be trampled.'

In neither case is any past action conveyed.