Jeffro

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Posts by Jeffro

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  25

  Are we all actually "bad / evil / immoral" after leaving the faith?

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so recently there have been several posts with references to talks and articles that imply the following:.

  most of those who learn ttatt or fade from the "truth", are actually practicers of bad things, eg immorality, hence that is why 'we' now find fault with the org?.

  i find this so offensive that they imply such.

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  Jeffro

  Mikado:

  Funny how happy they are living in a black and white world, where reality is far from that.

  Indeed. But the thing is, not all JWs are happy either. They're told that JWs 'as a group' are 'the happiest people' (and they're told to tell people that JWs are happy), but that gives no consideration to individuals, who are largely beset by the same problems as everyone else (which is 'counteracted' in JW propaganda with the claim that JWs avoid things like drug addiction or unwanted pregnancies [etc], ignoring the fact that a) those problems also exist among JWs and b) not all 'worldly' people live that way either). On top of that are those who only go along with it because they don't want to be shunned.
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  25

  Are we all actually "bad / evil / immoral" after leaving the faith?

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so recently there have been several posts with references to talks and articles that imply the following:.

  most of those who learn ttatt or fade from the "truth", are actually practicers of bad things, eg immorality, hence that is why 'we' now find fault with the org?.

  i find this so offensive that they imply such.

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  Jeffro

  The Watch Tower Society indoctrinates people with a belief that they should search for 'truth', then vilifies people who actually do so.

  The mechanism of JW shunning through an ambiguous announcement, coupled with the unverifiable assertion that 'most' are 'removed' for 'immorality' is essentially slanderous.
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  127

  OK..Seriously..Has GOD ever answered your prayers????

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  look...i am not an atheist.

  even so, i have never had one prayer answered my entire life.

  the only thing that would even come close was learning ttatt.

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  Jeffro

  Someone who prays frequently about things that are either mundane or only slightly unlikely is certain to have some of those prayers 'fulfilled'. The 'success' rate is exactly equal to chance.

  Compounding the delusion that the 'successes' are 'answered prayers' is the fact that all the failures are either explained away (e.g. "God knows what we 'really' need"), or simply ignored altogether.
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  127

  OK..Seriously..Has GOD ever answered your prayers????

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  look...i am not an atheist.

  even so, i have never had one prayer answered my entire life.

  the only thing that would even come close was learning ttatt.

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  Jeffro

  Vanderhoven7:

  I told her she needed a Christian to pray for her.
  “Do you know a Christian?" She asked.

  Why would she bother asking that? Who other than a self-professed Christian would tell some old lady she 'needs a Christian to pray for her'?!

  I paused for a moment, thinking, his faith was just as weak as my own. Finally I blurted out, “I'm a Christian, I will pray for you.” She was happy with that. So as she sat there I placed my hand on her head a began to pray....when all of a sudden, I started speaking with bold authority in the power of the Spirit...and she lost consciousness.
  I sat there waiting for her to wake up. When she finally did she was calm and collected. She walked over to me and took my hands and said...”These hands...you could make money...."

  So... what you're saying is... an old agitated lady fainted, and she was calm after she regained concsciousness. Calm is pretty much the default just after regaining consciousness. What would you expect?!

  That's possibly the least convincing example of 'answered prayer' I've ever heard.
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  8

  "Watchtower's Achilles' Heel" is available in Spanish

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the watchtowers achilles heel is available in spanish.. if reasoning with a jw on the governing bodys interpretations such as of the kingdom of god, parousia, the cross, blood, and so on is unlikely to break the governing bodys mental stranglehold, what then is its achilles heel?.

  my study: the watchtowers achilles heel answers that question.

  http://www.jwstudies.com/the_watchtower_s_achilles__heel.pdf.

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  Jeffro

  Good work. It's obvious that the 'Governing Body' is not a biblical teaching, but your analysis gives a very good overview of why.

  I'm not sure that Paul receiving 'visions' is particularly compelling stuff in general to motivate any rational person to believe that the Bible contains anything approaching an accurate history of Christianity. However, it is quite interesting from the perspective of JW (and Christian) belief that the accounts are contradictory.
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  43

  607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi everyone,.

  i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

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  Jeffro

  never a jw:

  Even though humor doesn't seem to be your forte,

  Evidently you don't understand what means.

  I stilll appreciate your great work

  Thanks.

  Sorry if I sounded flippant.

  Sorry if I didn't.
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  43

  607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi everyone,.

  i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

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  Jeffro

  never a jw:

  Hey Jetro,

  Jeffro.

  I have kept correspondence with some apostates, even well known ones. I have done few translations to Spanish for them. The problem is that they live thousands of miles from California. I want to meet an apostate before I quit this JW business (when my children are out, few others too, why not). I want to find out if apostates have horns and tails. Hey, if they sit at the table of demons, horns and tails can be expected.

  The term 'apostate' is used pejoratively by JWs. I do not identify as an apostate, as I have never been convinced that JW doctrines are true.

  I'm not aware of any correlation between apostasy and the presence of a vestigial tail or cutaneous horns.

  If you live somewhere near L.A., food is on me. You choose the place and I bring the credit card.

  Thanks for the offer, but I do not live anywhere near California. Not even the same continent.
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  43

  607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi everyone,.

  i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

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• 

  Jeffro

  TD:

  I hate to be the fly in the punch bowl here (Because I think 607 BC is hogwash) but Luke 21:24 is actually a text book example of what is called the periphrastic progressive.

  It should be noted that in addition to the fact that the grammar of Luke 21:24 indicates that the trampling (and the falling by the sword and the being led captive) was actually yet future, the Greek text of Luke 21:24 separately uses a future-tense verb (ἔσονται) in reference to the 'Gentile Times', further indicating that the alleged period had not yet begun.
• 
  43

  607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi everyone,.

  i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

  1. 
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• 

  Jeffro

  never a jw:

  I am sure I can impress few people with this, even though I have no idea what the hell I am talking about.

  Yes, I think few will be impressed by that. But if you'd said something more impressive, perhaps a few would be impressed.
• 
  43

  607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi everyone,.

  i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

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• 

  Jeffro

  TD:

  Continuance and customariness are two different lexical contexts

  Continuance indicates an on-going action (e.g. Earth orbits the sun) whereas customariness indicates an action that is performed at intervals (e.g. I wash my hair).

  That distinction is not relevant to the context of Burton's demonstration that both his examples (Luke 5:10 and 21:24) refer to things that start in the future, and then continue (or become customary).

  At some point in the distant past (before the formation of Earth), an imaginary observer could employ the periphrastic progressive to say:

  • Earth will orbit the sun (continuance)
  • Jeffro will wash his hair (customariness)
  • Jerusalem will be trampled (continuance)
  • Simon, James and John will 'catch men' (but not in a gay way) (customariness)

  In all these cases, it is a future event that continues in some manner.

  Once the action has already started, saying it 'will happen' is no longer an instance of the periphrastic future progressive but the standard future progressive.