dabster:
Very well established, Jeffro? Paul seems to have believed that Adam had existed every bit as much as Jesus did and does. "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive" (1 Corinthians 15:22).
That's an indication that Paul is also wrong, not that Adam was real. And yes, it's an extremely well-established fact that humans have been around for significantly longer than 6000 years, and that the first human wasn't a golem in a fairytale garden until he was tricked by a rib-woman and a talking snake into eating magical fruit.
Cold Steel:
You're correct to say that if Adam didn't exist, then Jesus would not be required to make the atonement which would bring us back to God. Where many disagree, however, is that we don't believe that it's a well established fact that Adam never existed.
Oh, you believe in a literal Adam around 6000 years ago. That's cute. A little sad. But cute.
Did men leave the trees for caves and evolve into hunter-gatherers? Did he go from uncivilized, uneducated and base to what he is now?
Apart from the crude and simplistic analogy of 'leaving the trees', yes. Simple systems become more complex over time. That's a quite fundamental concept. Claiming otherwise is like claiming that people have always flown in aeroplanes rather than benefiting from the gradual development from simple concepts to complex understanding of physics and engineering.
Or was he created and placed on this world by a Supreme Intelligence who taught him and gave him the benefit of revelation?
There is no evidence or precedent for such a thing.
If one looks at the quality and quantity of divine revelation, of prophecy that was fulfilled to the last dot and tittle, it's difficult to explain away. Daniel's vision of the empires from Babylonian to the Romans:
In chapter 2, Nebuchadnezzar dreams of a statue with body parts made of different materials, which Daniel then interprets as four kingdoms:
1. Head of gold Interpretation given: The Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar is the head of gold.[v.37-38]
2. Chest and arms of silver Interpretation given: After Nebuchadnezzar an inferior kingdom shall arise. [v.39] Medes & Persians
3. Belly and thighs of bronze Interpretation given: A third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. [v.39] Greeks (Alexander the Great).
4. Legs of iron with feet of iron and clay Interpretation given: A fourth kingdom, strong as iron. [v.40] Rome, divided into East and West
5. The feet and toes partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, show it shall be a divided kingdom. [v.41] Emergence of nation states
Since Daniel was written in the 2nd century BCE, it's unsurprising that it's accurate about World Powers up until that time.
Daniel 2:40 bears little resemblance to the claimed interpretation of "Rome, divided into East and West", which is just as spurious as the claim that a mixture of 'clay and iron' represents 'nation states' that are in some way different to previous nations.
Outside of Christian dogma, the actual 'interpretation' is:
- Head - Babylonians
- Chest and arms - Medes
- Belly and thighs - Persians
- Legs - Greeks
- Feet - Seleucids and Ptolemies
