Posts by Jeffro

14

Watchtower Web Domains

by Petraglyph in

jw
friends

i did some reverse domain lookups to see what web domains were linked to watchtower.

i did reverse lookups on the hostmaster address, building address, and phone number.

i've sorted and deduplicated the results.. bethelres.org.

Jeffro

Petraglyph:

jw2020.org <-- I wonder why they feel the need to do this?

The 2016 domain name indicates that these year-based domain names are for information about special conventions in the given year.

14

Watchtower Web Domains

by Petraglyph in

jw
friends

i did some reverse domain lookups to see what web domains were linked to watchtower.

i did reverse lookups on the hostmaster address, building address, and phone number.

i've sorted and deduplicated the results.. bethelres.org.

Jeffro

LevelThePlayingField:

I have often wondered why they have mirrored other websites to go to their JW.Org site anyways. Like the ps8318 site.

ps8318 = Psalm 83:18. It's not particularly surprising that they have registered domain names based on some of their favourite Bible verses as redirects to their website or as placeholders for future sites. (Hence hag27, heb412, isa4310, lu2343, mr1310, mt1016, mt1130, mt2414, mt711, pr221-22, pr2711, pr418, ps8318, re213-4, zac823.)

10

Did Jesus attend a "worldly celebration"?

by Westenddave in

hello community,.

my question in a nutshell is whether there is justification in celebrating worldly holidays, such as the 4th of july in the usa?.

let's look at a parallel.

Jeffro

Diogenesister:

Jeffro is this why the Jews don't consider Daniel a prophet and actually its said these are "writings" or stories ( historians say pure fantasy and not historical) because the Maccabees were not god approved as such? Just wondered. It certainly seems that the Millerites and end time lot like the JWs are the only ones who set any great store in Daniel, is this not so? Do let me know if anyone knows anything please?

There is broad consensus among scholars that the book of Daniel was written by anonymous authors in the middle of the 2nd century BCE, and there are no references to it earlier than that period. The Jews considered the prophetic canon to be closed by the beginning of the 2nd century BCE. The first six chapters appear to be adapted from older folk tales, and as explained in the article I linked, re-worked to fit the theme of banning and subsequent restoration of Jewish worship under Antiochus IV. Chapters 2-6 were not even originally written in the same language as the rest of the book. Chapter 4 doesn't even claim to be written by 'Daniel', but is instead supposedly narrated by Nebuchadnezzar (but it borrows from an older tale about Nabonidus).

5

The power of elders gets eroded further

by bats in the belfry in

for instance:.

once the elders have determined that the bible student qualifies to engage in the field ministry, he is eligible to receive his own copy of organized to do jehovahs will.. 2015 organized to do jehovahs will, page 71. .

now online for everyone - without interogation..

Jeffro

bats in the belfry:

Do I have to login to get that question asked? . . . I am not a member - is that for membership personnel only?
Jeffro, one way of circumventing their foolproof protection system:

No, it was sarcasm. Anyone can just click "Download".

5

The power of elders gets eroded further

by bats in the belfry in

for instance:.

once the elders have determined that the bible student qualifies to engage in the field ministry, he is eligible to receive his own copy of organized to do jehovahs will.. 2015 organized to do jehovahs will, page 71. .

now online for everyone - without interogation..

Jeffro

But how will you ever get past their foolproof protection system?

10

Did Jesus attend a "worldly celebration"?

by Westenddave in

hello community,.

my question in a nutshell is whether there is justification in celebrating worldly holidays, such as the 4th of july in the usa?.

let's look at a parallel.

Jeffro

The JW response to this would be that irrespective of whether the Maccabees had God's approval, the celebration commemorated the restoration of Jewish worship at the temple in Jerusalem. They would argue that there is a distinction from other 'national holidays' because of their view that 'Christians' (by which they mean 'only JWs') are 'no part of the world' and are not 'really' citizens of 'other' nations ("lands"?), whereas the Jews were supposedly 'God's chosen nation'. They would further add that Jesus had not yet instituted the replacement of the Jewish passover at the time that he attended the Jewish festivals. (That said, the response from many JWs would probably be more like, "um... I don't know... ah... I'll have to do some research and get back to you.")

JWs (and other Protestants) do minimise the significance of the history leading up to the Hanukkah celebration, which is actually the entire theme of the book of Daniel. This is largely so that the book of Daniel can instead by misapplied to Jesus and subsequent end-times beliefs.

38

Were Adam and Eve the only humans created?

by heyfea in

my husband asked me a questions that kind of stumped me for a moment.

he asked, in genesis, when cain killed abel, and god, as punishment cursed him and drove him from the land, making him a restless wanderer, why did cain say to god that the punishment was too hard; that anyone who found him would kill him?

who was going to kill him?

Jeffro

It's a primitive creation myth. Best not to overthink it.

52

1914—The Turning Point in History - Really?

by berrygerry in

1914the turning point in history.

30 from the human standpoint, the world troubles and global wars foretold in the bible were far from the thinking of the pre-1914 world.

german statesman konrad adenauer said: thoughts and pictures come to my mind, .

Jeffro

JW literature has discussed lots of wars. Below are the wars that are featured in their Watch Tower Indexes (there are separate Index sections dedicated to World War I & II), but there's plenty of others that are just mentioned in various articles. But the Balkan wars (1912-1913) and other issues in Europe that led up to World War I are completely ignored by the Watch Tower Society. Causes of World War I, First Balkan War, Second Balkan War.

*** dx86-14 War ***
American Civil War (1861-1865): g95 5/8 13-14
cigarettes: g86 4/8 5
American War of Independence (1775-1783):
Boston Tea Party: g89 9/8 19
Boer War: g86 1/22 20
Caste War (Maya against Spaniards) (1847-1853): w08 12/1 14
Crimean War (1853-1856):
cigarettes: g86 4/8 4
religious factors: w90 12/15 3, 5
English Civil War (Puritan Revolution): g89 9/8 27
Korean War (1950-1953): g 12/08 13; yb88 161-166; g87 5/22 13
experience of captives: w12 12/1 12-13
Opium Wars (1839-1842; 1856-1860): re 263; g89 9/8 19; g88 12/8 6
Christendom’s missionaries back Britain: re 263
Punic Wars (Rome vs. Carthage): g 4/09 18; g01 11/8 16-18
Spanish Civil War (1936-1939):
religious incitement: re 207-208, 262; g90 3/8 7-9
Thirty Years’ War (1618-1648):
coins minted having divine name: w95 5/15 32
Peace of Westphalia (1648): w04 3/15 20-23
pipe smoking: g86 4/8 4
religious motivation: gm 33-34

*** dx30-85 War ***
American Revolution: g76 7/8 3-4; g71 5/22 13-14; w62 717; g38 4/20 18; g37 10/6 6
Armageddon: w85 1/1 3-7; w85 1/15 3-7; w85 2/1 3-7; w85 2/15 5-7; su 18-20; w83 11/1 3-7; g74 11/8 7-8; w73 296-297; w71 623-624; kj 363-368, 372-373, 376-377; w66 726-728, 730; w64 624-628; pw 9-19; g64 5/22 7; w61 718, 724-727; g61 11/22 15; pa 204-210; w55 435-436; sr55 337-343; w51 615-616; lt-2-30 55-57
Boer War: w85 8/1 6; w85 11/1 10
Eighty Years’ War: g72 9/22 21-25
Maori wars: w79 9/15 8-9
Napoleonic: qm 295; qm55 295; g54 12/22 10-11; g47 9/8 4, 6; ta 316
Opium War: g75 5/8 9-12
Peasants’ War in Germany (1524): g79 9/8 7
Taiping Rebellion (China): g82 3/22 7
Third Punic War officially ended: g85 5/8 29
Thirty Years’ War: w82 1/1 4; g72 4/22 13; g71 6/22 16-19; qm 295; g66 7/22 17-20; g65 4/22 5; qm55 295; g52 7/8 20; g47 9/8 4, 8; ta 316, 319; g43 2/3 19-21; g40 9/4 9
U.S. Civil War: g61 12/8 19; g47 9/8 4; g43 1/6 26

29

Why do most Christians churches have masonic and/or pagan symbols?

by kabwell in

has anyone looked at the local churches in their area and seen pagan and freemason symbols both inside and outside.

i am not a jw but at least they don't seem to follow this trend.

why do "christians" wear a symbol of torture and death ?

Jeffro

kabwell:

But I do see the jws as well as other cults closer to the teachings in the NT then most of the protestant and catholic sects

Hang on... you don't know that JWs are a "protestant sect"??

Protestantism --> Adventism --> Bible Student movement --> Jehovah's Witnesses.

Know your subject!!

183

JWs have more good points than bad

by lsw1961 in

1) many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic).

2) equal monthly pay to all members of the bethel community regardless of whether they are bc members or sweepers.

this is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.

Jeffro

1) Many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic)

So being 'atheistic' is on par with being 'vicious'. You, sir, are an idiot.

2) Equal monthly pay to all members of the Bethel community regardless of whether they are BC members or sweepers. This is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world. But JWs have successfully done it in all their Offices throughout the world for over a century. This is no insignificant accomplishment as this has the potential to solve virtually all the problems of the world.

The same pittance (a stipend, not a salary) for all the duped 'volunteers' and no retirement benefits is in no way a good thing. Undue influence by high-control groups is one of the problems in the world that definitely won't be solved by this.

3) The way they start their day with discussing a spiritual thoughts (Daily Text) puts the members in a good and positive frame of mind empowering them to deal with the challenges of the day ahead. They way they are being trained to talk to objection-raisers and conversation-stoppers gives them good speech mannerism in all avenues of life.

Hasty generalisation. Most JWs are terrible at explaining their beliefs without a JW publication in their hand. Many are woeful at using just the Bible. This was the case even during their heyday of detailed doctrinal articles, and now the literature is dumbed down so much, the magazines are barely more than pamphlets. JWs are (and always have been) hopeless at dealing with the gaping holes in their 1914 dogma when the scriptures are actually analysed closely (rather than simply leaving out the problems or outright lying in JW publications). And the section on what to say when someone says "I'm a Muslim" was deleted altogether in later printings of the 'Reasoning' book.

4) Numerous legal victories in favor of freedom of expression and beliefs have helped even non-JWs also.

As much as there has been some benefit from some of those cases (mostly in the US), they are tainted by hypocrisy. The Watch Tower Society has also fought cases for the right of organisationally imposed shunning (despite their claim that "No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family", g 7/09 p. 29) as well as spending literally millions of dollars paying out cases of child sexual abuse made possible by deficient policies for dealing with child abuse internally.

5) They effectively invited the attention of the world into the thinking that evolution theory is just a theory believed out of convenience rather than conviction [if it were a principle, all scientists would have unanimously accepted it) and restored many biblical truths which Christendom had obscured (prominent among them is the superiority of Father —at a time when the son was viewed as more prominent than the Father, it was JWs who turned the attention of the world to the normal that The Father is highest of all and son is second in power. Such restorations have the potential to make adherents responsible-minded and good citizens! To accomplish such extra-ordinary things on a global scale, extra-ordinary courage is required.

Firstly, you've just demonstrated that you have no understanding of what constitutes a scientific 'theory'. Secondly, it is extraordinarily naive to believe that JWs have "effectively invited the attention of the world" to this 'issue' (or to any other, really, since most people know little or nothing of JWs). Other fundamentalists (such as the bombastically stupid 'Answers in Genesis' and other nutters) have done far more than JWs have done to try to convince the uneducated masses that evolution is not a reality.

Similarly, there are various 'restorationist' Christian denominations, several of them springing from the same (pre-Russell) Adventist origins as JWs. There is very little that is actually unique about JW beliefs. The doctrinal oddities that 'distinguish' JWs from mainstream Christianity (such as their nontrinitarianism) have nothing at all to do with 'making adherents responsible-minded and good citizens'. And the Seventh-Day Adventist church has more than double the membership of JWs.

List can go on and on. At the same time I admit that they also have their weak side which arose unwittingly out of good-intention. Even Apostle Paul taught (in 1 Cor 10:11) that the kingdom would come in the first century. Such false teaching did not make believers evil citizens of their respective countries; on the contrary it made them more spiritual preparing themselves to meet the Lord! The Lord did not come, so what? People did become more spiritual, more humane just as students who prepare for examination too early do not lose anything! Hence discreet ones will take benefit from their good points and ignore the rest. Because judgment is on individuals (not on the organizations, religions, nations ... etc)—Mathew 25:31-46.

Funny how 'early Christians' (with the implication that this extends to JWs) believing "false teaching did not make believers evil citizens", yet people of other religious are supposedly deserving of death because they accept "false teachings".

However, ignoring all the good points of JWs and lashing them indiscriminately helps no one. Many in this forum lament about disfellowshiping and shunning policy of JWs. Of course I do refrain from shunning which I personally consider as wrong. But people choose to become JWs knowing very well about the above policy! Every organization (and even Governments) will have their own terms and conditions designed to protect their interest, and it is natural that anyone who tries to undermine them has to be disfellowshipped or should attract something similar (as Edward Snowdenrightly expects from the US Government). Such measures are not only right, but also a loving act as this is in the best interest of the majority of the law-abiding members of the organization/Governments. Anyone can have disagreements . When I found certain things confusing, I brought to the attention of the higher-ups who, in turn, told me to wait for Jehovah. I left it at that, and am still in the organization. You may accuse me of trying to be part of a herd which is comforting. If I had asserted, I would have been disfellowshipped and organization would still continue as it was before, thus asserting accomplishes nothing. However, asserting implies trying to prove that individual is more important than the organization, hence such individual should be shown the exit so that he can enjoy life outside the boundary!

You defend shunning, claim that you don't shun, and then try to defend shunning again. This is called cognitive dissonance. And equating the rejection of fundamentalists religious beliefs (refer to quote from Awake! earlier) with leaking national secrets is just plain stupid.

Your statement that "asserting accomplishes nothing" is a pitiful sentiment, suggesting a broken will. Again, the cognitivie dissonance is loud and clear. A paragraph after saying that "judgment is on individuals" and that "discreet ones" will take the "good points and ignore the rest", you say it would be wrong to try to "prove that individual is more important than the organization". I hope that you come to recognise the gaping contradictions in your perspective.

In your case, you are not enjoying your lives even after coming out of JWs as you are still worrying about what JWs are doing and attacking them relentlessly (just like a divorced husband, who passionately monitors his former wife and attacks her with no let up). What did those who declared: “we should kill Lazarus also” gain? (John 12:10) You can easily dismiss Lazarus episode as fictional. Yet history has enough examples of attacking the good just because they are good.

You seem to have a distorted perception of former JWs, as if they're comic-book villains who are just 'bad for the sake of being bad'. It's an extremely naive delusion. And who are you to tell others whether or not they are happy?!