Jeffro

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Posts by Jeffro

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  5

  Love letter to Simon

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. forum
  2. suggestions

  my dear, dear simon,.

  it is with a heavy heart that i approach your throne today.. i fear i have become aware of a minor boo-boo on the site.

  remember, we must be perfect just as our lard is perfuct.. the problemo esta dis: .

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  Jeffro

  Simon:

  It takes me to this, which looks correct:

  The content is correct, but the heading incorrectly says "Topics started by..." though it should say "Topics posted on...".
  
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  55

  Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a challenge next sunday for them .

  due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

  this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

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  Jeffro

  Bobcat:

  In the latest update, WT deletes Emperor Aurelius (King of North) & Queen Zenobia (King of South) on the line for Dan 11:25-26 and then moves everyone below that one line up. (If I don't have that correctly, please set me straight.)

  Notice, for example, how in the WT explanation Seleucus IV and Antiochus IV are removed from Dan 11:20 & Dan 11:21-35 and lumped in the line Dan 11:13-19. The next two lines are explained as Roman emperors and then the explanation moves to modern times.

  Their attribution of Daniel 11:20 has always been Augustus, and this can't be changed because, as with other Protestant interpretations, it (supposedly) links the 'prophecy' to Jesus. (The verse actually refers to Heliodorus confiscating treasures from the temple in 176 BCE.)

  The identification of the 'kings' in verses 25 and 26 previously said to be Aurelius and Zenobia have now been lumped in with their 'explanation' about the German Empire and Britain (verses 27 to 30a). The subsequent 'identifications' don't 'move one line up', only the portion attributed to the German Empire and Britain is extended upwards to include verses 25-26.

  (Also, the top chart you provided incorrectly associates verses 13 and 14 with Ptolemy IV instead of Ptolemy V. These verses allude to actions by Antiochus III after the death of Ptolemy IV.)
  

  See Daniel's dreams and visions.
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  55

  Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a challenge next sunday for them .

  due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

  this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

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  Jeffro

  sir82:

  Wasn't that all those ancient Egyptian, Greek, & Roman rulers? Seleucus, Ptolemy, Cleopatra, Augustus, etc.

  Sort of. Nothing beyond the Seleucid and Ptolemaic dynasties until the death of Antiochus IV in 164 BCE was ever actually part of the 'fulfilment'.

  In 1958, the Watch Tower Society abandoned its association of Daniel 11:17-19 with Cleopatra VII, with a subtle 'bait and switch' instead noting Cleopatra I as the wife of Ptolemy V who was instead nominated as the 'king' identified in those verses. (Cleopatra VII is only briefly mentioned in Your Will be Done and the later Daniel's Prophecy but not identified with any specific verses of Daniel chapter 11.)
  
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  55

  Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a challenge next sunday for them .

  due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

  this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

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  Jeffro

  Back in the late 19th century, the only significant difference between Russell's interpretation of the 'kings of the north and south' and that of the Seventh-day Adventist Church was Russell's identification of Aurelian and Zenobia among the 'kings'. That difference has now finally been abandoned.
  

  Russell correctly identified the 'kings' up until verse 16 of Daniel chapter 11. By 1954, the Watch Tower Society caught up with the correct identification of the 'kings' up to verse 19. Unfortunately, from there they are permanently stuck with incorrect identifications because they need the 'prophecy' to point to Jesus and then to 'our day'.

  Back in reality, the story of the 'kings of the north and south' ends with Antiochus IV Epiphanes.
  
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  19

  New Book: Pure Worship of Jehovah—Restored At Last!

  by Afterburn in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a new book, now available on their website in pdf, and it is basically an update to survival—into a new earth!

  (1984), the book that convinced me to get baptized at age 12.. i'm not going to review the entire book here.. because matthew 28:18-20 specifies baptizing as part of the great commission, and because hebrews 6:1-2 lists the teaching on baptisms as among the primary doctrine about the christ, i intend to focus on the portion of the new publication that deals with baptism.. in chapter 16, on pages 178 and 179, paragraph 17 states:.

  17 to survive the coming destruction, individuals need to prove their faith now.

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  Jeffro

  Afterburn:

  It is a new book, now available on their Website in PDF, and it is basically an update to Survival—Into a New Earth! (1984), the book that convinced me to get baptized at age 12.

  Though Survival briefly touches on Ezekiel chapter 9, that book only mentions Ezekiel a few times. Pure Worship is actually an update of the 1971 book “The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah”—How?
  

  I'm not going to review the entire book here.

  A detailed review of the book is available here.
  

  Because Matthew 28:18-20 specifies baptizing as part of the Great Commission, and because Hebrews 6:1-2 lists the teaching on baptisms as among the primary doctrine about the Christ, I intend to focus on the portion of the new publication that deals with baptism.

  The focus on baptism in Pure Worship is a complete distortion of what the relevant part of Ezekiel actually says. In the 'vision' about 'marking' people for survival, the marking and the killing happens at the same time, with the 'man in linen' (i.e. a hypothetical priest) marking people for survival just ahead of the murderers, and they return to Ezekiel at the same time after completing the task. This completely contradicts the Watch Tower Society's interpretation that people 'must' be 'sighing and groaning' now in advance of a later destruction. Additionally, the claim in Pure Worship that 'sighing and groaning' about social conditions somehow means 'get baptised' is a complete misrepresentation of the 'vision' in Ezekiel, obviously intended to inspire a sense of 'urgency' among Witnesses as a recruitment technique.
  
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  11

   ---  the queen, prettiest "king of the south" you have ever seen!

  by waton in

  1. social
  2. humour

  when daniel was discussed in the cherished private home "book study", that was the slogan that had been coined:.

  zenobia of palmyra, the queen, prettiest king of the south you have ver seen, sung to some ditty melody.

  making, having fun then.

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  Jeffro

  waton:

  [Regarding Zenobia] J: quote please.

  The Watchtower, May 2020, page 3:
  

  For the reason stated here, it no longer seems appropriate to list Roman Emperor Aurelian (270-275 C.E.) as a “king of the north” or Queen Zenobia (267-272 C.E.) as a “king of the south.” This updates what was published in chapters 13 and 14 of the book Pay Attention to Daniel’s Prophecy!
  

  It's almost as if they know they're just making stuff up as they go along...
  
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  13

  Sued by inmate, North Carolina concedes Witnesses are distinct faith group, not subset of Protestants

  by Corney in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  last thursday poyner spruill, a prominent north carolina law firm, announced a victory in a pro bono case involving religious freedom of incarcerated jehovah's witnesses.

  the poyner team was appointed by the u.s. district court for the western district of north carolina to represent an inmate challenging the state’s policy governing how and when jehovah’s witnesses can worship in prison.

  the state’s policy classified jehovah’s witnesses as a subset of christian protestants and, on that basis, prohibited separate jehovah’s witness meetings—an infringement on religious freedom under the first amendment.

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  Jeffro

  Beyond procedures for religious activities in North Carolina prisons, the decision means essentially nothing.

  JWs remain a branch of the Adventist movement which is derived from Protestantism.
  
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  38

  Covid-19 death rate

  by BourneIdentity in

  1. social
  2. current

  worldwide numbers – 13%.

  deaths: 359,791. recovered: 2,399,247. active cases 3,044,378. we need to throw out the active cases in our calculations, as we don’t know if those people will survive or die.

  deaths + recovered is 2,759,038. deaths/deaths + recovered = death rate.. 359,791/2,759,038 = 13%.

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  Jeffro

  Haven't read through all the responses, but the calculated worldwide death rate is misleading. Different countries have different rates of testing and different metrics for reporting cases. Similarly, the numbers of deaths attributed to coronavirus are impacted by deaths that may actually be attributed to other causes where someone with an existing serious condition may have otherwise died anyway but happened to also contract coronavirus, as well as deaths for which coronavirus may have been the cause but has not been diagnosed. So the numbers can't just be averaged to give a meaningful worldwide result.
  
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  11

   ---  the queen, prettiest "king of the south" you have ever seen!

  by waton in

  1. social
  2. humour

  when daniel was discussed in the cherished private home "book study", that was the slogan that had been coined:.

  zenobia of palmyra, the queen, prettiest king of the south you have ver seen, sung to some ditty melody.

  making, having fun then.

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  Jeffro

  Alas, as of the May 2020 Watchtower, Zenobia was never actually the 'king of the south'.
  
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  14

  The Great Crowd Fallacy

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the great crowd of other sheep witnesses allegedly first began forming early on in the 20th century.

  rutherford was totally unaware of this crowds existence until 1935. it was revealed to him in 1932 that the great crowd members were heaven-bound.

  then light flashed from heaven in 1935 showing that this group was an earthly class.

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  Jeffro

  Doug Mason:

  According to my rusty memory, the Book of Revelations says that the 144,000 are on earth -- that's why they need to be protected -- while the Great Crowd is before the throne (up in the sky?)

  Yes, the Watch Tower Society's version of the "great crowd" and the "144,000" is completely backwards.

  See What Does the Bible Really Teach… about the 144,000? (PDF)