Posts by Jeffro

They say lands instead of countries, because that shows a bigger figure. Loads of small islands are part of the report, that often belong to one country, So its simply written that way so the org can brag to the dubs that they are preaching all over the world. In realty over a third of the world has never, ever met a JW.

Despite their claim about 240 'lands', back in reality they actually report activity in 159 countries, and '30 other lands'.

Overrated:

Watchtower math is always exaggerated from reality. They say they have 8 million plus members but dollars to donuts that real number could be 5 or 3 and dropping fast.

The number of 'members' depends on the definition used (setting aside the recent debacle about 'membership' of a local congregation corporation). If counting children of JWs and anyone else who self-identifies as a JW, including 'POMI' individuals, the number may be significantly more than what is reported by Watch Tower (and this probably reflects what would be reported by secular surveys). However, if counting only 'dyed-in-the-wool' members who actively enjoy 'preaching' and would remain in the denomination if there were no risk of shunning, the 'membership' would be considerably less than what Watch Tower reports.

34

Was Jesus Born on December 25th?

by Sea Breeze in

we were told by watchtower that no way jesus was born on dec. 25th.

.

what do you think now?.

Jeffro

The fact that some people believed stories about a preacher who died is unremarkable. We’re talking about people who believed that seizures and psychiatric disorders are evidence of demonic possession. Such people could be entirely convinced, for example, by an eclipse occurring during the execution of an itinerant preacher and subsequent stories.

The claim that there is broad scholarly support for all the points that were provided is simply false and there is no contemporary extrabiblical (or biblical) evidence for anything about Jesus during his lifetime. Also, the contradictory conversion stories of Paul in Acts and Galatians are not particularly good evidence of anything other than that someone believed something.

34

Was Jesus Born on December 25th?

by Sea Breeze in

we were told by watchtower that no way jesus was born on dec. 25th.

.

what do you think now?.

Jeffro

Millie210:

Wasn't there also a line of reasoning from Daniel 9:27 about gift offerings to cease at the half of the year. The times being mentioned there was 7 years. and apparently, it had a greater application in the death of Jesus at which time there would be no more need for gift offerings.

JWs do say that, but it completely misrepresents Daniel. The ‘leader’ in that passage was Antiochus IV Epiphanes. But aside from the specifics, the passage indicates the ‘leader’ to be an enemy of Jerusalem and not the same person as the ‘messiah’. Verse 26 says ‘messiah’ is cut off at the end of 62 weeks, not at ‘the half of the week’ as falsely claimed by JWs.

JWs use the same passage to falsely claim that Jesus died in 33CE (counting ‘62 weeks’ from an invalid starting point), which also has no basis in fact. It is more likely that he was born in 4BCE and died 30CE.

34

Was Jesus Born on December 25th?

by Sea Breeze in

we were told by watchtower that no way jesus was born on dec. 25th.

.

what do you think now?.

Jeffro

Assuming Jesus existed at all, the ‘nativity’ stories in Matthew and Luke are later inventions, so the claims about shepherds being outdoors at the time would have no bearing on the actual time of his birth.

34

Was Jesus Born on December 25th?

by Sea Breeze in

we were told by watchtower that no way jesus was born on dec. 25th.

.

what do you think now?.

Jeffro

No. Jesus as portrayed in the Bible is literary fiction. In Paul's letters, written before the 'gospels', the author knows essentially nothing of Jesus' life. Some details are invented by the author of Mark around the time Jerusalem was destroyed and then a few more details (including his genealogy and nativity stories) are invented about a decade after that by the authors of Matthew and Luke (likely based on a common source written after the destruction of Jerusalem).

Though it is possible that the stories about Jesus were loosely based on one or more itinerant preachers, with a core based on a disciple of John the Baptist who was later executed (pretty much the only things scholars generally agree about Jesus' life), there is no reliable information about any other events in his life. Because there happened to be an eclipse in 30CE around the time Jesus was probably killed, that might have contributed to the belief that Jesus was significant. (Jehovah's Witnesses' selection of 33CE is based on their superstitious numerological interpretations of Daniel and can be ignored.)

62

-0:6 negative growth 2020 service year

by Fadeaway1962 in

phttps://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=e&pub=syr20&srcid=share .

plus another increase in memorial partakes number etc .

Jeffro

It seems fairly likely that the pandemic is largely responsible for the reported declines in average publishers and Memorial attendance.

However, with the provision to write letters and to report as little as 15 minutes preaching per month, the significant reduction in preaching hours does not seem to be entirely limited to the pandemic. The 2020 report starts from September 2019 before the pandemic, and yet the peak publishers for the year is only 12,691 higher than the peak for the previous year. For comparison, the peak difference between the 2018 and 2019 reports was 103,208.

If the pandemic is largely responsible for problems with reporting, then it would be expected to see an artificially inflated increase after the pandemic is over, accounting for any actual increase in addition to numbers recovering from potentially unreported details from 2020. This could be as much as 3% if the actual increase independent of the 'recovery' is around the 1.5% mark of recent years, which the Watch Tower Society may dishonestly hail as 'remarkable' growth.

It should also be borne in mind that the pandemic is ongoing and that the 2021 report will include data starting from September 2020. So statistics (possibly with a 'phantom' increase as described above) may not recover fully until the 2022 report.

26

Being Reinstated

by azl0058 in

so my brother recently became df.

he has full intentions of being reinstated, but it is going to take at least a year.

if the end times occurs while he is df, will he still be allowed in the kingdom of god?.

Jeffro

BluesBrother:

All that we were doing was denying congregation fellowship with the person.

So, just the part that actually does real harm.

26

Being Reinstated

by azl0058 in

so my brother recently became df.

he has full intentions of being reinstated, but it is going to take at least a year.

if the end times occurs while he is df, will he still be allowed in the kingdom of god?.

Jeffro

azl0058:

So my brother recently became df. He has full intentions of being reinstated, but it is going to take at least a year. If the end times occurs while he is df, will he still be allowed in the Kingdom of God?

He would be best off working out that it’s not actually true so that he doesn’t waste time trying to ‘go back’ (jumping through hoops for the ‘elders’ while being shunned) or carry unnecessary feelings of guilt over made up beliefs. Of course, if he were ‘disfellowshipped’ for an actual crime (rather than nonsense like ‘apostasy’ or for consensual sexual activity) that’s a separate matter. Either way, he’s not going to miss out on any ‘kingdom of God’.

62

-0:6 negative growth 2020 service year

by Fadeaway1962 in

phttps://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=e&pub=syr20&srcid=share .

plus another increase in memorial partakes number etc .

Jeffro

Several months of the ‘service year’ (started September 2019) were unaffected by COVID, so ‘peak publishers’ can be used as a relative comparison to the previous year. (However, ‘peak publishers’ is not a reliable indicator for absolute numbers as their method allows for people who submit late reports to be counted twice in a given month.)