Posts by Jeffro

50

WT May 2022: The Seven Headed Beast

by raymond frantz in

.

https://youtu.be/wg9-pvxsoqm.

this is my take on may 2022 watchtower on the seven headed beast and its connection to the 4 beasts of daniel 7. what do you think?.

Jeffro

Vidqun:

this is how I see it.

Frankly, the way you see it is convoluted nonsense that isn’t even consistent with what is actually written. For example, there is no basis for asserting that the ‘signs in heaven’ are a ‘prelude’ to the ‘tribulation’. Your interpretation is not unique, but is one of various interpretations that have sought to make early Christian predictions ‘relevant’ after their original 1st-century expectations failed.

those around him did see him in kingdom glory. It's called the transfiguration.

There’s no evidence that it happened at all, but it’s also incorrect because Jesus ‘coming in kingdom glory’ is explicitly supposed to happen after the ‘tribulation’.

50

WT May 2022: The Seven Headed Beast

by raymond frantz in

.

https://youtu.be/wg9-pvxsoqm.

this is my take on may 2022 watchtower on the seven headed beast and its connection to the 4 beasts of daniel 7. what do you think?.

Jeffro

You seem to imagine that expectation is supposed to guarantee fulfilment. People wrote stuff that they thought would happen after other stuff happened. The superstitious claims about what would supposedly follow the destruction of Jerusalem simply didn’t happen (though Revelation, written later, does also allude to some events during the reigns of individuals such as Domitian that aren’t included in the ‘gospels’). The NT claims about tribulation contai a mixture of mundane statements, hyperbole and fantasy, none of which means that any of it is legitimately ‘prophetic’.

(Also, comparison of Luke 21:25 with Matthew 24:29 and Mark 13:24 shows that even in the story, the ‘signs in heaven’ follow the tribulation.)

50

WT May 2022: The Seven Headed Beast

by raymond frantz in

.

https://youtu.be/wg9-pvxsoqm.

this is my take on may 2022 watchtower on the seven headed beast and its connection to the 4 beasts of daniel 7. what do you think?.

Jeffro

Vidqun:

Would you say it is all due to coincidence?

Why on earth would I call it ‘coincidence’? Later writers had access to earlier works, and the apocalyptic genre typically shares common themes, of which ‘tribulation’ is the most basic. (Asserting ‘coincidence’ as the only alternative to ‘prophecy’ is also another false dichotomy.)

Approximately 13% of Jesus’ Olivet discourse comprises information about the “great tribulation”

The ‘great tribulation’ in the NT is the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE. Jesus’ ‘return’ was explicitly expected both after the ‘tribulation’ and within a generation of his death. Earlier OT ‘tribulations’, such as Antiochus’ desecration of the temple and ban of Jewish religion in 168 BCE alluded to in Daniel, do not refer to the same event.

50

WT May 2022: The Seven Headed Beast

by raymond frantz in

.

https://youtu.be/wg9-pvxsoqm.

this is my take on may 2022 watchtower on the seven headed beast and its connection to the 4 beasts of daniel 7. what do you think?.

Jeffro

Vidqun:

I really don't understand your "historical view."

It is obviously more exciting to pretend Revelation has some special meaning for now and into the future, but it is not remotely ‘hard to understand’ that it actually referred to events around the time of writing along with a hypothetical end time expected to follow shortly after.

NT prophecy has permanent significance because no one knows the hour

Or in other words, vague ‘prophecies’ can be reused as needed when earlier interpretations fail.

Every page shows also how free the author is from the letter of the OT and from any attested apocalyptic tradition. This is why the question of the theological and prophetic significance of the images must be raised.

This is a plain old false dichotomy. Essentially saying, ‘He’s not using the meanings from the OT so it must be prophetic instead.’ No.

50

WT May 2022: The Seven Headed Beast

by raymond frantz in

.

https://youtu.be/wg9-pvxsoqm.

this is my take on may 2022 watchtower on the seven headed beast and its connection to the 4 beasts of daniel 7. what do you think?.

Jeffro

Sigh. 🤦‍♂️

Revelation borrows imagery from Daniel, but the purposes are quite different.

Daniel describes various empires from Babylon down until Antiochus IV Epiphanes of the Seleucid dynasty.

Revelation on the other hand refers to the Roman Empire ('Babylon the Great' is Rome, which was a city that had a kingdom over the empire's various client kingdoms). The various 'beasts' in Revelation depict successive Roman emperors during the first and early second centuries, along with their impact on Christians. This was supposed to lead into a hypothetical future 'end time' typical of the genre.

Relevance to anything happening now remains exactly zero.

20

Am I Expected to Become One of Jehovah’s Witnesses if I Study the Bible With Them?

by Ron.W. in

(ps.

Jeffro

Ron.W.:

Am I Expected to Become One of Jehovah’s Witnesses if I Study the Bible With Them?

Yes.

you are not obligated in any way

This is a bait-and-switch, irrelevantly stating that a person is not obligated to join (which is obvious because they have no legal authority to force conversion), but it is quite separate to their expectation.

11

Why the King of South (USA) is in the Northern Hemisphere?

by pistolpete in

there's been a lot of talk among jws, that this is it with russia (king of the north) pushing and shoving against the (king of the south usa).

but look at the world map below on the link, and notice that usa is in the northern hemisphere.. meaning the king of the south must be none other than -----------argentina .

that's so funny that jws still can't figure it out that they are being conned to the max.

Jeffro

Disillusioned JW:

Other than first king of the north and the first king of the south (according to WT interpretation and according to the interpretation of many Christian groups),

The JW interpretation of Daniel is Adventism which is derived from Protestantism, so it is of course unremarkable that other denominations share elements of their interpretations of Daniel.

However, nothing in Daniel applies to now. The kings of the north and south were the Seleucid and Ptolemaic dynasties up until the mid-2nd centuries BCE.

15

Jehovah's witnesses at polish border. Wtf

by usualusername1 in

jw
friends

sky news reporting ukrainian refugees coming into poland.

"jws are offering support".

🤦🏿.

Jeffro

I’m sure the JWs are just there to offer humanitarian aid without taking advantage of people’s suffering to proselytise. Totally sure. Probably.

7

Philistine pronunciation

by road to nowhere in

the wt uses phi list ine.

the world says phil is tine.

i remember they had a pronunciation guide devised by a clergyman which is ok in as much as as we dont speak hebrew.

Jeffro

road to nowhere:

Yes, but that old clergycritter decided the second syllable was to be accented, no matter. That was my intent to show.

And you’re wrong. It is a regional US dialect, not the unique or arbitrary ‘decision of one clergyman’.

13

Fearmongering news on JW.ORG : Russia Invades Ukraine

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

russia invades ukraine.

in the early morning hours of february 24, 2022, russia began a military invasion of ukraine, despite the efforts of world leaders to avoid war.

how might this military conflict affect the world?

Jeffro

The book of Daniel foretold a rivalry between “the king of the north” and “the king of the south.” (Daniel 11:25-45) Watch the video Fulfilled Prophecy—Daniel Chapter 11 to learn why Russia and its allies can be identified as the king of the north.*

Nope. Nothing in Daniel has anything at all to do with Russia (or anything else happening now). See Daniel's dreams and visions and What Does the Bible Really Teach about Gog of Magog?

Jesus Christ foretold a time when “nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom.” (Matthew 24:7) Read the article “What Is the Sign of ‘the Last Days,’ or ‘End Times’?” to see how the Bible shows that wars today fulfill Jesus’ prophecy.

What JWs say about Jesus' 'presence' and the 'great tribulation' also contradicts what the Bible actually says. See What Does the Bible Really Teach about Jesus' Presence?