Jeffro

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Posts by Jeffro

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  33

  Watchtower August leak: details from reddit user

  by ukpimo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  from reddit.. a summary of changes: .

  we are all sinners, so we have to be reasonable how we punish sinners.

  if elders and congregation do not quickly help someone come to be reinstated they would be imitating satan the devil, not jehovah (yes that actually is what is said in the tagalog version in translation!

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  Jeffro

  no-zombie:

  Personally, I find that new arrangement (if true) would have a number of practical problems.
  Either, other disfellowshipping matters, like fornication and drug use are now NOT disfellowshipping offenses, or the each congregational member will have to be privately informed about a Brother or Sister's new status, should they be found guilty of being unrepentant.
  Because if no one knew that you were disfellowshipped, you could just pretend everything was ok and associate normally.

  It’s not true. The conclusion that ‘only apostates, child abusers, or those scheming to end a marriage will be disfellowshipped’ is an erroneous misconception (or deliberate distortion).

  However, there is ambiguity in the changed arrangement about greeting disfellowshipped individuals at meetings unless they’re ‘apostates’ because congregation members aren’t told the ‘reason’ for which a person was disfellowshipped.
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  51

  2024-08-August-Edition-of-Watchtower!

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was translated so make sure everything looks ok.. 2024-08-august-edition of watchtower magazine.. .

  https://smallpdf.com/result#r=c90d948913ed99d72872c0a1c609f388&t=share-document .

  leopold.

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  Jeffro

  Me, earlier:

  Some aspects of these changes such as ‘no longer using the term disfellowshipping’ might appear significant

  The machine-translated article that was made available actually says the term "outcast" will not be used anymore, and some reviewers have taken that as referring to the term "disfellowshipped" (and it was with those in mind that I said the above). However, it may actually indicate some other term, e.g. "expelled", that won't be used anymore. In any case, it makes no difference to the intentionally vague announcement that "[name] is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses".

  The policy continues to employ emotional manipulation (actually more so) to retain members, and also continues the practice of shunning any who reject JW beliefs in favour of some other religion or no religion. I'm hopeful that governments such as that of Norway will see these paltry changes for the bait-and-switch that they are.
  
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  33

  Watchtower August leak: details from reddit user

  by ukpimo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  from reddit.. a summary of changes: .

  we are all sinners, so we have to be reasonable how we punish sinners.

  if elders and congregation do not quickly help someone come to be reinstated they would be imitating satan the devil, not jehovah (yes that actually is what is said in the tagalog version in translation!

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  Jeffro

  Beth Sarim:

  If it weren't for the laws of the land,,,I believe jws could take it personally,, take matters into their own hands & do atrocious & evil things to apostates.

  The Watchtower, 15 November 1952, page 703:

  Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship.
  
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  33

  Watchtower August leak: details from reddit user

  by ukpimo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  from reddit.. a summary of changes: .

  we are all sinners, so we have to be reasonable how we punish sinners.

  if elders and congregation do not quickly help someone come to be reinstated they would be imitating satan the devil, not jehovah (yes that actually is what is said in the tagalog version in translation!

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  Jeffro

  ukpimo:

  Announcement of disfellowshipping an unrepentant wrongdoer, either an apostate, child abuser or someone scheming to end their marriage will take place. There is NO mention of any need to announce disfellowshipping for other offences, unless I need to clarify this when we receive the English edition.

  This claim is not at all supported by the machine-translated version of the article that has been made available. The categories of 'apostate, child abuser or someone scheming to end their marriage' are mentioned together only in reference to additional caution regarding reinstatement.

  Apostates must be avoided, especially on social media and their websites. To send them messages is like sharing in their wicked works. This is a massive game changer, this really is BIG!

  No, it's not. There is no change in position there.
  
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  51

  2024-08-August-Edition-of-Watchtower!

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was translated so make sure everything looks ok.. 2024-08-august-edition of watchtower magazine.. .

  https://smallpdf.com/result#r=c90d948913ed99d72872c0a1c609f388&t=share-document .

  leopold.

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  Jeffro

  Some aspects of these changes such as ‘no longer using the term disfellowshipping’ might appear significant, but are just ‘smoke and mirrors’. Changing the terminology is essentially meaningless, and the term ‘disfellowshipped’ has not been included in announcements since the 1990s. Congregation members already aren’t informed whether a person is being shunned due to ‘disfellowshipping’ or ‘disassociation’, nor are they told what the person is supposed to have done.
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  51

  2024-08-August-Edition-of-Watchtower!

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was translated so make sure everything looks ok.. 2024-08-august-edition of watchtower magazine.. .

  https://smallpdf.com/result#r=c90d948913ed99d72872c0a1c609f388&t=share-document .

  leopold.

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  Jeffro

  It’s clear that the articles have been machine-translated back into English, but otherwise appears legitimate. The final article confirms that their ‘softer’ position on shunning is actually just more emotional manipulation of those who might want to return, and continued total shunning of those who do not want to be JWs, apparently including ‘disassociated’ individuals if they show no interest in accepting JW beliefs. So, still in violation of the right to freedom to change religion. But because it was withdrawn, it remains to be seen what will be said in the final version.
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  40

  Who Are the "Other Sheep" and Jesus "Brothers" ?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  watchtower plays lots of games with definitions.

  once they change a definition then they have a false assumption to build their deception on.

  then they repeat the new definition and use its new meaning thousands of times to reinforce it.

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  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  My appeal was accepted, I got born again, filled with the Holy Sprit.... the whole nine yards.

  It is entirely impossible to confirm that any part of that is true.
  
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  40

  Who Are the "Other Sheep" and Jesus "Brothers" ?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  watchtower plays lots of games with definitions.

  once they change a definition then they have a false assumption to build their deception on.

  then they repeat the new definition and use its new meaning thousands of times to reinforce it.

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  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  Watchtower plays lots of games with definitions.

  It does. But Christianity has been playing this game for centuries, and the Watch Tower Society is just another denomination with its own esoteric interpretations.

  First of all, Jesus said that He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel

  Actually, we have no evidence that Jesus said that at all. We have no evidence that Jesus actually said anything attributed to him in the Bible. What we have is documents written by people who had access to older works, enabling them to write stories that ‘fulfilled’ supposed ‘prophecies’, usually out of context and sometimes in reference to passages that were never intended as ‘prophecy’ at all.

  It’s remarkably unimpressive that someone could read what Jeremiah and Ezekiel wrote, and then write something based on that.
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  33

  Stupid dumb ass changes yet blood and 1914 no change???wtfge???

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  yeah wow women can finally wear pants and men beards...but 1914 is still a date not accepted since charles russell times and blood fractions are evil!!.

  are they crazy!!!

  !.

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  Jeffro

  Rattigan350:

  The only thing that matters is when the banding of the tree ended and the kingdom was established. Russell had nothing to do with that.

  The convoluted JW (Adventist) interpretation of the ‘banding of the tree’ is contrived nonsense. It is erroneous from start to finish. There was no conveniently invisible ‘kingdom established in 1914’
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  33

  Stupid dumb ass changes yet blood and 1914 no change???wtfge???

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  yeah wow women can finally wear pants and men beards...but 1914 is still a date not accepted since charles russell times and blood fractions are evil!!.

  are they crazy!!!

  !.

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  Jeffro

  Praotes1914:

  I don’t have a problem with 1914. It is a fact that World War I started then. Just think where Russell would’ve been if nothing happened in 1914? He would’ve been totally washed up. All they’re going to do is drop the numerology and keep the date 1914 and I don’t have a problem with that because World War I started and it was the start of the last days. what’s wrong with keeping that theology?

  Texas sharp shooter fallacy. If WWI began in a different year, one of the other nutter groups promoting a different nutter chronology would latch on to it as ‘proof’ of their slightly different nutter views. There’s barely a year in the late 19th or early 20th centuries that some nutter group didn’t say was ‘the year’. What Russell said would happen didn’t happen anyway, and Russell didn’t believe Satan was cast to earth in 1914. The fact is that apart from the Adventist core, they have completely changed the theology from what Russell believed about 1914.

  Just a few of the things Russell believed that were later changed, mostly by Rutherford:

  • The Great Pyramid of Giza confirms biblical chronology
  • Jerusalem was destroyed in 606 BCE
  • The ‘time of the end’ began in 1799
  • Christ’s presence began in 1874
  • Jesus was made king in 1878
  • ‘Sleeping saints’ were resurrected to heaven in 1878