Jeffro

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Posts by Jeffro

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  60

  The Question of the "Great Apostasy" and the Historical Continuity of Christianity

  by aqwsed12345 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1. the continuity and visibility of the church.

  the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.

  there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.

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  Jeffro

  peacefulpete:

  My research has led me to the opinion that Mark in it's final form could be that late. The min-apocalypse shows signs of being reworked/updated to include events of the 3rd war. Matt followed soon, Luke a decade or so later.

  I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it is unnecessary and not entirely likely. Picking an event that seems similar about ‘false prophets’ and concluding that it ‘must’ be part of the ‘fulfilment’ (irrespective of whether it is asserted as ‘prophecy’) is falling into the same trap as people who say there are ‘false prophets’ fulfilling it now. In the same manner, if Mark were written when most scholars say it was, people in the 130s could have run around saying , “See, Mark has prophecy about what’s happening now,” but really it’s just more events that are ‘similar enough’ to some vague statements. Then through the years, there are more and more events that ‘fit’ (due to ambiguity), and you get to where we are now.
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  42

  "We're in the last days!"

  by BoogerMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  not just jw's, but countless others (evangelicals etc.

  ) are claiming that we're in the "last days.".

  but........bible students/jw's have been spouting this fake message since the 19th century!!!!!!.

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  Jeffro

  Duran:

  unknown amount days for WW3, but last days begin at start of the 1,335 days

  So we have to get through WW3 first before we can even start to see if your superstitious interpretation is correct. 🤦‍♂️ What a load of nonsense. The ‘last days’ is a trope that has nothing to do with any modern wars or political situations.
  
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  23

  Where Adam and Eve Vegan/Vegetarian?

  by KerryKing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jws seem to firmly believe that before the flood mankind eas vegan or at least vegetarian.. however, in gen 1:24,25 it says that god created livestock (domestic animals) and beasts of the eart (wild beasts).. why would adam and eve need livestock if they were vegan and naked?

  wouldn't need wool or hide for clothing, nor meat for food.

  possibly for dairy products only?

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  Jeffro

  peacefulpete:

  As a recent poster, and fluent Jew, has argued, our literalist/Fundamentalist training is very difficult to see around. Tales and stories need not be read as documentaries (and generally shouldn't) to have profound importance for teachers and students. Suspending our critical mind to enter the stories to try to feel what the author intended is not the same thing as dismissing the stories as worthless 'lies'. Nor is it the same as mistaking stories as history and dismissing scientific and historical reality.

  It is true that such stories have been told in particular cultures to impart lessons rather than being intended as literal histories, and it can be helpful to have an understanding of that intent (while keeping in mind that those interpretations also aren’t the original interpretations or versions of the stories borrowed from even earlier cultures). But other cultures have reinterpreted those stories as literal, and there is nothing wrong with analysing or criticising those (re)interpretations, whether that be academically or just for amusement. This is especially the case when the proponents of those reinterpretations have a more significant impact on present society.

  For example, if someone in the United States wants to use Genesis to teach creationism in schools, there is limited value in focusing on a Jewish interpretation of the story and concluding that there’s no issue.
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  60

  The Question of the "Great Apostasy" and the Historical Continuity of Christianity

  by aqwsed12345 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1. the continuity and visibility of the church.

  the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.

  there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Deutero-Paulines like 2 Thess were also 2nd century works addressing then current issues such as doubts due to long delay, a reinterpretation toward a realized eschatology, and continuing rejection of efforts to establish an orthodoxy.

  This is an accurate assessment though.
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  60

  The Question of the "Great Apostasy" and the Historical Continuity of Christianity

  by aqwsed12345 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1. the continuity and visibility of the church.

  the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.

  there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  peacefulpete:

  There is good reason to include the events of 135-136CE in the context of Mark 13 and related texts.

  This reinterpretation might seem convenient but is not consistent with the order of events relative to the ‘great tribulation’. Mark wasn’t written that late and there’s no reason to assume a superstitious ‘fulfilment’.
  
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  18

  The boy who has cried wolf - for nearly 140 years!

  by BoogerMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "when will this hope be fulfilled?

  the bible foretold events that would signal that god’s kingdom is about to begin its rule over the earth.

  present world conditions match what the bible foretold.

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  Jeffro

  but let’s not pretend they are a new player in this game

  🤦‍♂️ That obviously isn’t what I meant. Was in a hurry. JWs are a ‘new player’, but it’s the game that isn’t new.
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  18

  The boy who has cried wolf - for nearly 140 years!

  by BoogerMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "when will this hope be fulfilled?

  the bible foretold events that would signal that god’s kingdom is about to begin its rule over the earth.

  present world conditions match what the bible foretold.

  1. 
  2. 
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  Jeffro

  Christians have been claiming that Jesus would return ‘soon’ for nearly 2000 years. JWs’ brand of nonsense is particularly laughable, but let’s not pretend they are a new player in this game.
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  60

  The Question of the "Great Apostasy" and the Historical Continuity of Christianity

  by aqwsed12345 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1. the continuity and visibility of the church.

  the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.

  there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  tldr.

  The fact that JW claims about the origin of the Catholic Church are incorrect does not mean that Catholic claims about the origin of the church are true.

  Matthew 24:9-28 speaks of 'false prophets' arising prior to and during the 'great tribulation' but prior to Jesus' 'presence'. The 'great tribulation' was the period during 66-70 CE, and cannot be associated with any 'apostasy' of 'true Christianity' after the first century, and Jesus' 'presence' was expected to occur within a generation of Jesus. It didn't happen, and different Christian groups have been making up excuses ever since.
  
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  36

  Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

  by jwundubbed in

  1. social
  2. humour

  i found out recently that michelangelo's painting of adam on the sistine chapel depicts him without a belly button.

  i had never noticed this before and it makes sense that neither adam nor eve would have belly buttons, not having been born in the usual way.

  then i realized all the first animals were created rather than born, according to the religious views of the origin of life.

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  Jeffro

  What she actually said

  Yeah… there’s nothing convoluted about what she actually said. Mildly slogan heavy as with all politicians deliberating on a theme but not anything like the prattle that ThomasMore ‘offered’.

  Would you like egg with that nothing burger?
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  26

  Will there ever be any new GB members?

  by Mikejw in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the last two seem very young.. will there be any further new gb members or will they all die off?.

  i still remember when tony morris and a few other joined many were disappointed thinking the current crop would be the last.

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  Jeffro

  Balaamsass2:

  From then on most congregations I belonged to, believed anyone who suddenly started "partaking" was a liar, apostate, or mentally ill.

  Well, they weren’t wrong. Though it also applies to the ones who partook before that.