Jeffro

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Posts by Jeffro

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  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

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  Jeffro

  It sounds like you’re saying that because there is a reason for JW growth therefore the growth doesn’t count.

  🤦‍♂️ Sure, whatever gets you through the night. 🙄 That paragraph was fairly obviously about retention rather than growth, but you can spin it however you like.

  JWs do also have a very high churn rate compared to other denominations, with a non-trivial proportion of short-term members briefly affiliated and leaving but this is a separate category of members to those impacted by the previously mentioned retention issues.

  More specifically, perhaps you’re saying that JW growth is morally tarnished because it’s accomplished by a practice you don’t approve.

  Oh goody, a straw man. Who cares about what people actually say if you can just make up their opinion for them. 🤷‍♂️
  
  
• 
  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

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  Jeffro

  Clearly the birth/ POMI / fence sitters rate is superseding the apathy that exists with in, as demonstrated by the census. What other conclusion can you come to.

  It’s more complex than that. POMIs (etc) could be offset by families with multiple children who are counted as JWs in the census. This could also include spouses and adult children in the household who are counted as JWs by the ‘head of the house’ completing the census form.
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  16

  Jesus Christ Will Arrive Within The Next Four Minutes! (parody)

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. social
  2. humour

  yes, you read that correctly!.

  jesus h. christ will arrive within the next four minutes!

  in fact, by the time you read this, he may have alreadt arrrived!.

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  Jeffro

  Where do I sign up?

  (And for all the naysayers, clearly he really means 4 minutes starting from 4 minutes before the end.)
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  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

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  Jeffro

  JeffT:

  It looks like they are no longer publishing the stat I like most: total hours in service.

  They can’t. It isn’t being reported by most members anymore.
• 
  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

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• 

  Jeffro

  sbf:

  It’s an odd thing on this forum. Since I first joined in 2000 posters have continually insisted, year in year out, that JWs are in decline, yet between 2000 and now JWs increased from less than 6 million to over 9 million.

  It is true that some have incorrectly said the denomination is in actual decline. But what you seem to be misrepresenting, here and on other occasions, is that others including myself have correctly stated that their growth rate has declined. And this remains the case in real terms despite their twiddling of the metrics.

  Additionally, we all know that direct comparisons with other churches are invalid where there is no (or trivial) social impediment to leaving the church. This includes denominations that nominally ‘excommunicate’/‘disfellowship’ supposedly errant members but use the terms in a manner that does not actually involve shunning but just excludes them from attending religious services.
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  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

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  Jeffro

  Journeyman:

  Interesting to see growth in almost every developed nation - Mostly just 1-2%, but some at 3%. I was surprised to see Ireland as high as 4%.

  The statistics are distorted because they changed the metrics for counting membership in November 2023. ‘Just tick a box if you did any preaching at all during the month.’ Because the criteria were changed, it is not a reliable indication of actual growth, and even with this distortion, growth averaged over the last few years remains poor.
• 
  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

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  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  joe134cd:

  In any case you have anecdotally confirmed that WT is accurate with its counting methods.

  It seems that the collation of the reports is accurate at a higher level, but the information reported by individual members is likely more prone to error. This was even more the case when members had to report preaching hours and were incentivised to inflate the figures.

  Wt under reports it membership, by not including kids.

  This is intentional (and it isn’t simply ‘underestimating’ at all). There is a trade-off in that it suggests lower membership than is actually the case by other metrics but the upside (from their perspective) is that it 1) inflates the supposed rate of growth and 2) misrepresents the amount of interest of non-members by comparison with ‘Bible studies’ and Memorial attendance.
  
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  22

  Is the Watchtower Ultimately a Creation of Fallen Angels?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a watchtower in ceremonial magical tradition is a tutelary spirit of one of the four cardinal points or quarters (east, south, west and north).

  in many magical traditions, they are understood to be enochian angels... originating with the enochian tradition of john dee, a version of it was popularized by the hermetic order of the golden dawn, which became hugely influential in modern western esotericism, including wicca.

  the watchtowers are invoked during the ritual of casting a magic circle.. .

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  Jeffro

  There was a time for five consecutive nights when I never slept a wink; then came a time when the strain was too much; my mind became unbalanced

  Five nights without sleep could very well result in hallucinations or distorted thinking. It wouldn’t take much for an already superstitious mind to chalk this up to ‘demons’ or other nonsense. Assuming any part of the anecdote is true, it is wholly unremarkable.
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  22

  Is the Watchtower Ultimately a Creation of Fallen Angels?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a watchtower in ceremonial magical tradition is a tutelary spirit of one of the four cardinal points or quarters (east, south, west and north).

  in many magical traditions, they are understood to be enochian angels... originating with the enochian tradition of john dee, a version of it was popularized by the hermetic order of the golden dawn, which became hugely influential in modern western esotericism, including wicca.

  the watchtowers are invoked during the ritual of casting a magic circle.. .

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  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  Here is an excerpt talk by C.J. Woodworth, given in 1913, where he admits to be demon possessed.

  Well if he said it, it must be true. I’m sure he gave compelling evidence about the specific operation of demonic possession or that demons exist at all, and it wasn’t just a convenient method of dismissing ‘old light’.
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  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  joe134cd:

  There are 2 conclusions:

  In addition to ‘inactive’ JWs identifying as JWs in census reporting, the higher amount is also accounted for by the fact that young children are counted as JWs by their parents in census reporting but aren’t registered as ‘publishers’. This is why Memorial attendance is closer to what appears in census data, and is related to the fact that the JW method of counting members favours growth rate.

  Counting ‘Bible studies’ with their own children also contributes to the illusion of higher interest in the denomination.