it is interesting to read the comments of so many who are no longer "in the truth".
i have not associated for 18 years but as my parents are still very much "in the truth".
i never disassociated myself as i feel to do so is to acknowledge some form of official status over me.
I've since thrown out the Bible as being inspired by doG, it's just another story book, perhaps the Greatest Story ever told? Perhaps not? I've read better.
How about a few of the books referred to in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy": "Where God Went Wrong", "Some More Of God's Greatest Mistakes", and "Who Is This God Person Anyway?"
hello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.
i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.
i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.
scholar,
The Society's interpreation using 607 is far better because it alone combines the elements of exile, servitude and desolation from 607 to 537.
This may sound all very convincing. However it is only the Society's interpretation, and it is not "it alone" which fits the bible; and it is fundamentally flawed.
Please explain how the Watchtower's view is consistent with Jeremiah 25:12. Specifically how could the 70 years end 2 years after an event (the calling to account of Babylon's king - 539BC) which Jeremiah said would occur after the 70 years had been fulfilled.
this board is quite helpful in a number of ways.
do you feel that you contribute to the growth of this board or are you just a taker?
People shouldn't be made to feel guilty about how much they contribute to the forum.
Some of them have already put up with the expectations of the WS, and some may have an element of guilt or fear even looking at the forum. Give them a break.
If people want to contribute something, they certainly can, but it's not obligatory.
all my life, i've been covering over things, to keep the peace in my family.
i've been scared to reveal my true identity on this site b/c i might be discovered by a lurker....but i've been thinking about it a lot lately and i've come to the conclusion that there's no point in lying about it anymore, and if it's meant to happen...then it will.......so, with that being said.... .
my name is jobeth white.
it is interesting to read the comments of so many who are no longer "in the truth".
i have not associated for 18 years but as my parents are still very much "in the truth".
i never disassociated myself as i feel to do so is to acknowledge some form of official status over me.
I never disassociated myself as I feel to do so is to acknowledge some form of official status over me.
I didn't disassociate myself either. I actually wrote them a letter specifically stating that they were not to make any announcement saying that I was either 'disfellowshipped' or 'disassociated'.
But they 'disassociated' me anyway. They didn't 'disfellowship' me because I hadn't done anything they could get me for, but because the elders couldn't counter any of the faulty beliefs I highlighted to them, they said I had 'disassociated' in case I try to 'stumble' anyone.
ive just left the jws well got dfed a month ago!
but family want me back so im trying to prove to myself that it isnt true, top get the strength not to go back,i heard the 607 date may be false, can anyone show me about that, i know exactly what the jws say and cant believe the intial date is wrong, is it?
'scholar'
Your misdirection is frustrating. No one argues about 539 as a pivotal date so you don't need to keep trying to defend it. It is 607 that is wrong.
70 years ended in 539 (Jeremiah 25:12, Daniel 5:26-30). Started in 609 (that's when Babylon became World Power after conquering the Assyrian capital at Harran.) That is when nations started to 'serve' Babylon.
This fits perfectly with archaeology and the bible. Just not JW dogma.
But maybe eventually there will be a flash of new light(TM) and the present present truth(TM) will be replaced with new present truth(TM), and then you'll wonder why you ever argued with us when the previous present truth(TM) fades into obscurity.
(TM)'Present truth' and 'new light' are trademarks of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.
1. has it occured to you that nowhere in the old testament is the holy spirit mentioned.
it did not exist.
do you not find it strange that when joseph was told it was the holy spirit that made mary pregnant, he did not ask "who the f--- is the holy spirit?
Where was Jesus in the days following his baptism? Off in the mountains for 40 days (Matthew 4:1-11, Mark 1:12,13 & Luke 4:1-13)? Or at the wedding in Cana (John 1:29,35,43; 2:1)?
Where was John the Baptist when Jesus selected his first disciples (starting from Matthew 4:18, Mark 1:16, Luke 5:1, John 1:35)? In prison (Matthew 4:12, Mark 1:14, Luke 3:20)? Or with his disciples (John 1:35)?
to be covered during service meetings week of 5/23/05.. q&a.
1. christians ardently desire the coming of jehovah's day, through which he will destroy the present system of things and usher in a new world of righteousness.
(2 peter 3:12,13, ftn.
The WTBTS doesn't have to be *Jehovah's people*. They're just a legal entity (one of many) that does its bidding. More convenient for law suits that way.
to be covered during service meetings week of 5/23/05.. q&a.
1. christians ardently desire the coming of jehovah's day, through which he will destroy the present system of things and usher in a new world of righteousness.
(2 peter 3:12,13, ftn.
You do have an invisible pet lion. Didn't you know? Since you haven't been feeding it (and they're not allowed to eat meat anyway), it's a good thing they don't starve to death in the invisible new system.
hello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.
i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.
i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.
When I first started researching the 607 issue, I manually worked out a timeline with the placement of all the Kings of Israel and Judah using the books of Kings and Chronicles and worked out where all of their years lay using both 607 and 587 for the date of Jerusalem's destruction.
I then separately sourced years used by secular historians for regnal years of the Egyptians, Babylonians and Assyrians, as well as points in their history that refer to Jewish kings.
"I have considered the books of Kings and Chronicles in depth and manually mapped the reigns of all of the kings and determined where these kingships lay if the year 587 is assumed for the temple destruction. I then sourced contiguous extracts of the historically accepted reigns of kings for Assyria (884-609), Egypt (993-486), and the Neo-Babylonian (667-539) period. To avoid any bias, I did not have the Israelite king lists visible when I mapped the other reigns to their accepted years. When I checked the completed lists together, I found that the chronologies correctly line up with a number of events: Jehoash paying tribute to Assyrian king Shamshi-Adad V in about 823 (as recorded on an Assyrian inscription); Menahem paying tribute to Pul (renamed Tiglath-pileser III when he ascended the Assyrian throne) in about 760 (2 Kings 15:19-20); exiles being taken by Tiglath-pileser III in the reign of Pekah in about 739 (2 Kings 15:29); Ahaz paying tribute to Tiglath-pileser III in about 731 (2 Kings 15:29); Hoshea conspiring with Pharaoh So (agreed by most historians to be Osorkon IV) and being imprisoned by Shalmaneser in about 726 (2 Kings 17:3,4); Assyrian king Sargon II stating "I besieged and conquered Samaria" (as recorded on an Assyrian inscription) in about 718; Manasseh paying tribute to Assyrian king Esar-Haddon (as recorded on an Assyrian inscription); Esar-Haddon invading Egypt in about 671 (Assyrian history); Manasseh paying tribute to Ashurbanipal (as recorded on an Assyrian inscription); Josiah killed by Pharaoh Necho in about 609 (2 Kings 23:29); Necho defeated by Nebuchadnezzar at Carchemish in 605 (Jeremiah 46:2). (Where I say 'about' I mean to within a year or two.) There were only two reigns that did not fit perfectly. Assyrian king Sennacherib, whose reign appeared to begin 5 years later than the events depicted in Hezekiah's 14th year at 2 Kings 18:13, though it is possible that the events occurred while Sennacherib was prince (as was the case with Tiglath-pileser III at 2 Kings 15:19, 20) The other discrepancy was Pharaoh Shishak's attack on Jerusalem (suggested to be Sheshonq by historians), which was out by some 24 years, but 20 years closer than the Society's reckoning."
When you use 607, it gets very very messy. This cannot be a co-incidence.
I would like to see how 'scholar' defends this.
