Posts by Jeffro

121

i need some skeptic input... dreams that come true

by googlemagoogle in

jw
friends

listen to this: the other day my wife was talking in her sleep and she said "sister xyz died".

i just thought, well she's dreaming.

the next day one of my friends told me "sister xyz died yesterday".

Jeffro

In the dream state, we can all do what some call astrotravel.

Anyone can dream about an out of body experience. It's a dream. Is there any reputable evidence that anyone has ever actually left their body?

Try your local book store. I think you will find it very interesting.

Why would I want to supplement the income of some author writing about some dubious theory. It seems that the only benefit derived from so called 'astral travelling' (although apparently some call it 'astrotravelling') is book sales. At least the Watchtower will give me fairytales for free.

763

Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?

by Little Bo Peep in

hello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.

i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.

i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.

Jeffro

Jeremiah 25 verse 11 and verse 12 as recognized by commentators are not discussing identical events.for verse 11 refers to Judah wheras verse 12 is an oracle addressed to Babylon.

You claim that the two adjacent verses discuss two disjunct periods, each of 70 years. You say that the first discusses Judah's servitude to Babylon, and the second, which ends before the first, discusses the end of Babylon's dominion. You are, of course, wrong. Verse 9 indicates that it is not just Judah, but all these nations round about against whom Nebuchadnezzar would be sent, and verse 11 clearly states that not just Judah, but these nations would have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years. Verses 17 to 26 indicate that this message was not intended for Judah only.

Verse 12 prophesies that after the fulfillment of seventy years which concluded with the exiles leaving Babylon became desolated over the couse of time as Jehovah had foretold. The reason why the seventy years could not have ended in 539 is because the land of Judah was still desolate and the exiles were still yet in Babylon at 539, it was not until 537 that Babylon released her captives with their resettlement in Judah. What you must remember is that the seventy year do not belong to Babylon but to Judah. It is their seventy years.

• Show me where the Bible says the 70 years belong to Judah.
• Show me where the bible says that Judah would be uninhabited for the entire 70 years.
• Explain how Jer 25:12 allows for the king of Babylon to be called to account before the 70 years ended. (To deny that Daniel's explanation of the writing of the wall, and Babylon's subsequent overthrow on the same night, is the calling to account of the king would be very bold indeed.)

scholars are giving greater attention to what happened during that closing chapter of Jewish history are recognizing for the first time that the cities were unhinhabited.

Which scholars?

33

5/23/05 KM Article "Jehovah's Day is Near"

by TheListener in

to be covered during service meetings week of 5/23/05.. q&a.

1. christians ardently desire the coming of jehovah's day, through which he will destroy the present system of things and usher in a new world of righteousness.

(2 peter 3:12,13, ftn.

Jeffro

Bad conduct and errors in understanding do not prove they aren't God's people.

So what is the basis then? Given that their own doctrinal basis for being the 'faithful and discreet slave' is inseparably linked with chronology that can be readily disproved, they have no real basis at all for their claim.

The only difference in credibility between them saying they are God's chosen people or me starting some religion and saying the same thing is that they have a corporate letterhead with a nice little logo.

92

How To Enjoy Assemblies By Being Rebellious

by metatron in

1. go out to lunch at every session.

bring back bags of fast food that say "burger king".

or "mcdonalds" on them.

Jeffro

Sing really really out of tune.... and keep the note going until the next verse starts

Why bother doing that? You'll fit right in.

92

How To Enjoy Assemblies By Being Rebellious

by metatron in

1. go out to lunch at every session.

bring back bags of fast food that say "burger king".

or "mcdonalds" on them.

Jeffro

flirt madly with the nearest member of the opposite sex until the end of the session.

Why stick to the opposite sex?

138

Guns: Opinions?

by RichieRich in

jw
friends

my mom isnt a big fan of guns, but after being mugged once, she appreciates the value of a well placed firearm.

she doesn't mind that i hunt and go to the shooting range regularly with my father.

about 6 months ago, i was out in field service with my mother and an elder's 2 daughters.

Jeffro

I don't own a gun because I don't feel I need one where I live. (There is also less of a gun mentality in Australia than in the US.) However in high crime rate areas, guns can and have saved the lives of people from intruders. Unless of course the intruder gets hold of the gun. Obviously guns should be kept where children cannot get to them and accidentally hurt themself or others.

I certainly doubt that most farmers would be happy to have their firearms taken away.

When I was in high school I used to go shooting with a few 'worldly' mates (though I only told my parents I was going camping - that was 'rebellious' enough becuase they were 'bad associates'), and it certainly hasn't turned me into a gun-wielding maniac.

People should have a proper respect for guns, just as they would for anything useful but potentially life-threatening - such as electricity, knives, or the ocean.

So long as people aren't breaking local laws regarding guns (including use and safe storage), people have the right to make their own decisions... unless of course they are minions of the Watchtower Society. Why use a gun to kill people when you can just let them slowly die wasting their futile lives handing out Awake!(TM) magazines?

167

I was thinking of forbidding my wife from taking the kids out in service

by Check_Your_Premises in

jw
friends

it is summer time.

the kids are out of school next week.

my wife is a newly dunked dub, who goes out in service on thursdays.

Jeffro

There was a sister in my old congregation whose husband had forbidden her to study with the children or take them to meetings or witnessing. She used to practically boast about how she still studied with them and took them in field service behind his back.

121

i need some skeptic input... dreams that come true

by googlemagoogle in

jw
friends

listen to this: the other day my wife was talking in her sleep and she said "sister xyz died".

i just thought, well she's dreaming.

the next day one of my friends told me "sister xyz died yesterday".

Jeffro

For all you know, a hundred or two hundred years down the road, they might be able to prove that humans are capable of telepathy or of telling the future.

And maybe they'll be able to prove that trees walk around when nobody's looking. But the point is evidence. Has there ever been a single instance of an unassailable verifiable case of paranormal activity?

763

Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?

by Little Bo Peep in

hello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.

i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.

i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.

Jeffro

(Some may see some repetition here from previous posts. That is because scholar keeps ignoring me.)

Scholar, you state the only year the bible supports is 607. I ask you again the question you have several times ignored in my previous posts: Please explain how the Watchtower's view is consistent with Jeremiah 25:12. Specifically how could the 70 years end 2 years after an event (the calling to account of Babylon's king - 539BC Daniel 5:26-30) which Jeremiah said would occur after the 70 years had been fulfilled.

The Society's interpretation contradicts Jeremiah 25:12 without doubt, and is therefore wrong. Unless they are saying the bible is wrong. Daniel's comments regarding the 70 years MUST be viewed in the context of Jeremiah's original words.

It is not necessary that 2 Chronicles applies the Sabbaths to the fulfilling of the 70 years. To say that the paying off of the Sabbaths covered the 70 years is excessive. Specifically, the Sabbaths were to be repaid for those years that the Sabbath resting of the land had not taken place. (The land was supposed to be allowed to rest every 7 years. (Leviticus 25:1-7)) 490 years (70*7) dates back to before David was king and it is very unlikely that the Sabbath was not followed at all for the entire time.

The following suggested punctuation makes it wholly consistent with 587 (wording as per New World Translation): "Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, (and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign, to fulfil Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah), until the land had paid off its Sabbaths; all the days of lying desolated it kept Sabbath. To fulfil seventy years, in the first year of Cyrus the king of Persia..."

They came to be servants to Babylon (609) until the royalty of Persia began to reign (539) to fulfil Jehovah's word to Jeremiah (70 years)

They were carried away captive to Babylon (587) ... until the land had paid off it's Sabbaths. (possibly 537)

Any other interpretation contradicts Jeremiah 25:12.

The Hebrew word for 'devastations' and 'devastated place' (chorbah Strong's 02723, 'a ruin') at Daniel 9:2 and Jeremiah 25:11 is directly related to the the Hebrew word for 'devastated' (chareb Strong's 02720, 'ruined') that Nehemiah used to describe Jerusalem at Nehemiah 2:17, when populated. It does not mean completely uninhabited.

121

i need some skeptic input... dreams that come true

by googlemagoogle in

jw
friends

listen to this: the other day my wife was talking in her sleep and she said "sister xyz died".

i just thought, well she's dreaming.

the next day one of my friends told me "sister xyz died yesterday".

Jeffro

Jeffro:
If these experiences are attributed to such a powerful force, why can't this amazing powerful force do something a little more worthwhile than giving vacation previews.
It's to this kind of comment that I direct my reply.

The comment was relevant to the argumentation - there should be observable instances of these abilities providing some derived benefit.

I would be much more convinced if you told me about a dream that hadn't yet been fulfilled and then later confirmed its fulfilment.

I don't give a shyte what people think of me

People have lives outside of this forum. I would think that most people here don't even give you a second thought - not in a negative way, just that they have their own busy lives to live.

Then she recognised it as me, her son, and heard herself shouting to my father that it was me. A few days later I rang her with the news that I was going into hospital for this operation. I wish she had told me at the time, because now I wonder if her memory is playing tricks, and it was perhaps after she heard I was going into hospital that she had the dream.

It sounds like her mind probably was playing tricks if it was after you told her about going into hospital that she said she dreamed about YOU being there. Or concern for your uncle may have raised concern for other family members which may have manifested in the dream. Details of dreams usually become more vague over time, so it would not be difficult for someone to imagine someone else's face in a dream they had had.