Posts by Jeffro

13

Heavenly hope????? What do you believe?

by findingmyway in

i am currently reading coc (just starting chapter 11 - point of decision).

i was also just reading on shaun's site the time magazine article (http://www.jwfiles.com/franz-article.htm) on ray franz's shunning.

i didn't realize that he and many other dissenters believe that all who belive in christ will go to heaven.

Jeffro

After researching Near Death Experiences or NDE's I believe that the Soul survives after death and goes to another realm, it usually looks like whatever the person having the NDE believes heaven to be, for some it's like an earthly paradise, for others it's like being in front of Gods throne praising him, the Egyptian's and American Indians have their own and so on, you can also visit other people's heavens or realms, it's quite interesting actually, and you are reunited with your loved ones. Of particular interest are the NDE's of people that were born blind, after being revived they reported having sight, and described what people and things looked like when they floated above their bodies, scientists are baffled about that one.

NDEs are more to do with a uncontrolled release of neurotransmitters in the brain near death than any actual experience of the detached 'soul'. This is borne out by the fact that the people's near death experiences are based on what they believe heaven to be. Obviously not all of the heavens are real, and the experience is simply an interpretation of the flurry of false sensory information manufactured by the excessive neurotransmitters in a way that is consistent with their belief system.

33

Name products the JW's will regret not having anymore in their new system..

by JH in

jw
friends

.

i'll start.

coke a cola

Jeffro

Toilet paper, toothpaste, mouthwash, toothpicks, matches, meat, the Internet.

This could go on forever.

349

The 1914 Doctrine and The Threat of the Egibi Business Tablets

by VM44 in

could the watchtower and the jehovah's witnesses survive the discarding of their 1914 doctrine?

the doctrine that in 1914 the end of the gentile times took place, jesus took up rule in heaven.

for some reason the jws think the outbreak of world war i in 1914 is proof their prophetic calculations were correct.

Jeffro

I believe that this progress in scholarship can be discerned because of a number of journal articles dealing with methodology in chronology with a revision of Thiele's pioneering work, Tetley's hypothesis and scholarship concerning the' Babylonian Gap'.

To be blunt, I don't think anyone really cares what you believe because almost every sentence you post is either misleading or completely erroroneous. You cannot actually indicate any specific examples that lead scholarship away from the period surrounding 587, and certainly nothing that points to 607. Further, you claim to uphold Witness beliefs, but post on a website which you have been instructed by your "celebrated WT scholars" not to even look at.

Jeremiah 25 concerns Judah only and the seventy years can only include servitude to the rulership in Babylon, desolation of the land and the Babylonian exile which ended with the decree and release of Cyrus in 537 as attested by Josephus.

It is patently obvious that Jeremiah 25 refers to the entire region, and saying anything else is a deliberate distortion of the facts, as is the assertion that the period ended some time after the calling to account of Babylon's king in 539BC.

The Isaiah commentary explicitly states that the nations including Tyre would serve and be under Babylonian domination for seventy years which was also the case with Judah in which such servitude was also to include exile to Babylon and the land desolate for seventy years. The fore-mentioned commentary only focusses on the nations servitude to Babylon which is only one element of Jeremiah's seventy years prophecy.

Your statement here conflicts with your previous statement that Jeremiah 25 does not refer to nations other than Judah. Even if you were right about applying the period to exile (which you are not), the ending of the seventy year period is restricted to ending in 539, as is indicated in the Isaiah book.

15

Will Jehovah prevent men from going to Mars?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

.

a few of the friends i have spoken to over the years seemed to think that jehovah would never allow man to leave the planet and visit another.. "we have to get this planet right first", they said.. i thought at the time, perhaps the furthest man would be allowed to go would be the moon.. recently, president bush announced a new space initiative for nasa - first the moon by 2017, then mars by 2020-2030.. what are your thoughts?.

.

Jeffro

The invisible King of the Heavens would never let the sinful contagion called "man" corrupt the rest of creation.

Corrupt the rest of creation? See the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_objects_on_the_Moon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_objects_on_Mars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_objects_on_Venus

I guess he failed.

349

The 1914 Doctrine and The Threat of the Egibi Business Tablets

by VM44 in

could the watchtower and the jehovah's witnesses survive the discarding of their 1914 doctrine?

the doctrine that in 1914 the end of the gentile times took place, jesus took up rule in heaven.

for some reason the jws think the outbreak of world war i in 1914 is proof their prophetic calculations were correct.

Jeffro

'Scholar'

Such interpretation is nicely confirmed by the fact that 1914 ended the Gentile Times with the Kingdom established in heaven as evidenced by the ourbreak of the Great War in 1914.

The outbreak of World War I in June of 1914 does not in any way provide any proof whatsoever for a prophecy of the Bible Students to be fulfilled "with suddenness and force not long after October, 1914" (The Watchtower, 15 May 1911). Additionally you have not provided any justification for applying the Gentile Times to a period beginning prior to 70AD as required by the original language in the book of Luke.

Historians are aware of the fact that there were many 'great wars' or conflicts in modern history but the significance of 1914 as the truly Great War or First World War is not seriously challenged by competent historians, statesmen and intellectuals.

Your use of the word 'competent' is an 'emporor's new clothes' gimmick, to make it seem that anyone who disagrees with your position is therefore 'incompetent'. It is akin to expressions such as "all intelligent people realise", "thinking people agree" etc.

The mere appearance of your little book simply reflects a novel opinion but remember that terms of 'Great War' and 'First World War' were not coined by us but by wordly historians so if you have a beef about this matter then take the matter up with wordly historians.

They are still simply labels, and do not at all reflect the early Bible Students' prophecies of what would supposedly occur. Indeed not all nations of the world were involved in World War I.

349

The 1914 Doctrine and The Threat of the Egibi Business Tablets

by VM44 in

could the watchtower and the jehovah's witnesses survive the discarding of their 1914 doctrine?

the doctrine that in 1914 the end of the gentile times took place, jesus took up rule in heaven.

for some reason the jws think the outbreak of world war i in 1914 is proof their prophetic calculations were correct.

Jeffro

Let me assure you that scholarship is moving away from the impossible dates of 586/587 albeit slowly because of the problems of methodology which have only recently surfaced and I will be doing all I can to hasten this process.

You cannot actually cite any evidence for this bold statement can you.

Certainly Babylon's domination over the nations as prophesied ceased at her Fall in 539 BCE but it was not until the seventy years of ; Judah which did not cease until the release from captivity in 537 could it be said that they were not still in servitude to Babylon.

Wrong. Jeremiah 25 clearly indicates that only after the 70 years had ended would Babylon and its King be called to account, placing the end of the 70 years in 539.

The seventy years for Tyre was a period independent of the seventy years as this period was of Babylonian domination but in the case of Judah it was to a a period of exile, servitude and desolation as prophesied. The seventy years of Tyre was a period long recognized by celebrated WT scholars even before the new Isaiah commentary.

Wrong. The Isaiah publication explicitly cites Jeremiah 25 in reference to which seventy year period referred to Tyre.

349

The 1914 Doctrine and The Threat of the Egibi Business Tablets

by VM44 in

could the watchtower and the jehovah's witnesses survive the discarding of their 1914 doctrine?

the doctrine that in 1914 the end of the gentile times took place, jesus took up rule in heaven.

for some reason the jws think the outbreak of world war i in 1914 is proof their prophetic calculations were correct.

Jeffro

Scholar said:

modern scholarship is moving albeit slowly in the direction of 607 by negating or displacing currents dates which are simply unsatisfactory

Scholarship has not actually diverged away from 586/587, and certainly has not moved toward 607.

The apostate interpretation as promoted by the Jonsson hypothesis of servitude alone is impossible and imaginary because it has no precise historical or scriptural starting point and ignores the most definite reading of the texts that Judah, Jerusalem and Temple would be desolated for seventy years.

More illusions... The scriptural endpoint of Babylon's seventy years was quite definitely at or before the death of Babylon's king and the overthrow of the nation (Jeremiah 25:12, compare Isaiah 43:1, Daniel 5:26-31). This is a key "most definite reading" that the Society deliberately chooses to ignore. It then tries to suggest that the original word for "desolated" means something that, linguistically, it does not necessarily mean. Specifically, the words used in the scriptures do not require complete depopulation.

Further, the Society states that the exact same period of Babylon's 70 years of dominance did not fully apply to Tyre, although the scriptures apply the same period to that nation.

17

607, Jerusalem completely subjected or destroyed? Which is it? New light?

by JoeGeneration in

according to the authorized site of the office of public information of jehovah's witnesses www.jw-media.org, beginning in 607 b.c.e., jerusalem was completely subjected to the rule of gentile world powers.

does this indicate that wts is getting away from insisting that jerusalem .

was destroyed in 607, as we know it was not, but rather that it came under the thumb of babylon and marked an end to true rule of a king in the line of david?

Jeffro

The attribution of the 'Gentile Times' to this event AT ALL ignores the original text of Luke 21:24 anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

But the destruction of Jerusalem didn't happen in 607 anyway, so it makes no difference what the old boys club in Brooklyn says about it.

349

The 1914 Doctrine and The Threat of the Egibi Business Tablets

by VM44 in

could the watchtower and the jehovah's witnesses survive the discarding of their 1914 doctrine?

the doctrine that in 1914 the end of the gentile times took place, jesus took up rule in heaven.

for some reason the jws think the outbreak of world war i in 1914 is proof their prophetic calculations were correct.

Jeffro

Well now I have some news for you

Why do you say things like that? Do you really want people to see what an egotist you are?

in relation to Jehoiakim and his third year. An article was published in the Journal of Hebrew Scriptures, 2002-3, Volume 4 under the heading "Jehoiakim Slept with his Fathers - Did He? by Obed Lipschits. The is article is available for download from the Journal of Hebrew Scriptures website and you will that this new research supports the view on this matter by celebrated WT scholars excepting that the dates are of traditional chronology.

Yet another article that says that the Society is wrong about 607. Thanks for the info.

The varying opinion on this issue is increased by the ambiguity of Daniel 1:1, which, on its own, can be interpreted that Jehoiakim was actually taken to Babylon at this time, or simply given into Nebuchadnezzar's hand in the sense of submitting to him.

Of course, when looked at overall, there is absolutely no problem with the bible being correct about this event happening in Jehoiakim's 3rd year (accession-year system).

Further, on this board we have been advised of a recent publication on chronology by Melbourne scholar Christine M Tetley titled 'A Reconstructed Chronology of the Divide Monarchy'/ I will be ordering this book as the List of Contents suggests that this is an important piece of research which discusses the many problems of methodology confirming all along issues that I have brought to your attention.

I'm sure you'll let me know if Tetley agrees with 607.

'Scholar', I grow tired of your clutching at little tiny straw-like snippets to try to prove little tiny aspects of your flawed beliefs, even though none of these sources actually agree with the Society, and they do not affect the big picture whatsoever.

19

How do JW's refer to DF and DA?

by Jourles in

jw
friends

i cannot for the life of me remember how i used to refer to ones who were df'd or had da'd while i was a jdub.

i *think* i used to say "so and so was disfellowshipped" rather than "so and so was df'd.

" but i can't remember.. a few days ago, i briefly overheard someone say "was df'd," which caught my immediate attention.

Jeffro

I really don't know whether im DA or DF'ed, i never stuck around after my frequent JC's to find out. Not that it matters, the pious bastards treat you how they want anyway!

Actually, it's even more pathetic than that because they treat you how they're told to treat you by the Society's thought police.