Posts by Hellrider

41

B - I - NGO?

by MutualRespectPlease2 in

hello friends its me, mutualrespectplease.

i messed up my earlier registration, so now i am mrp2.

i have been doing a bunch of research on the different responses i got from you regarding my posts from the beginning of august.

Hellrider

What were they trying to accomplish? Running for political office? Trying to become members of the U.N.? I get the feeling you are all looking for any reason to blast the WTS. I think if you step back and look at the whole picture, you can see that the WTS is trying to gain religious freedoms and rights in Europe. There are laws and organizations and meetings and judgments involved. Are any of you experts on those laws? How would YOU go about getting preaching “legally established”?

Doesn`t matter. How old are you? Were you a member of the movement in the 70s and 80s? I was just a kid then, but even I remember the pictures of the whore riding the beast and the U.N in the background. I was reprimanded for making a drawing of the UN-logo (we were learning about the UN at school) while at a meeting. The WTS said the UN was the whore of Babylon, Satans primary organisation on earth. And they, the WTS were Gods organisation on earth. Gods organisation then jumped into bed with the very one they said was the whore, the one they said was Satans organisation! It doesn`t matter how you try to justify this, or explain this, by saying "the WTS is trying to gain religious freedoms and rights in Europe". The martyrs that died on the arenas in Rome, did they bow down and kiss the feet of the statues of pagan gods to avoid becoming lion-food? No, they didn`t, they chose death. Even if the WTS was condemned and outlawed by the secular authorities worldwide, that would not give them any excuse to join the organisation they themselves for decades had said was the devils tool! The thing is: I don`t really care about being a part of the U.N or not, it`s not me that ever said that the U.N was the whore, the devils instrument, they did! They have condemned themselves according to their own standards! They backpeddled when it suited them. That sucks! Whatever you do in life, you`re supposed to go all the way, and live up to your own standards, not turn and run back in the last inning. The one who lives by the sword, dies by the sword, remember? They`re fu##ing hypocrites, and that`s it.

44

Your favorite bits of JW folklore

by B_Deserter in

we all hear stories an experiences that happened to a "friend of a friend," and the witnesses are no exception.

they even have their own urban legends.

here are my favorites, and please post yours as well.. 1. watchtower theologists according to one of the old guys i used to pioneer with, there is a super-scary-secret organization of apostates called "watchtower theology.

Hellrider

The heavy metal bands of the 80s: KISS was short for Kids In Satans Service...and W.A.S.P was of course "We Are Satans People". Then there was E.T. which was surely demonic.

89

A Jesus Fish-Bone: The Life and Experiences of JCanon

by GetBusyLiving in

i just thought i would start a thread wherein we could get some background info on jcanon without any of the end times predictions.

just want to get a feel for who this person is, what type of environment helped mold his world view, and what his likes and dislikes are.

whatever your opinion of him you have to admit that he's a character.

Hellrider

Is there a copy of this alleged picture that we can see?

JC has posted it before...so if you have the patience to look thru his thousands of posts, you`ll find it...(it`s worth it, it`s pretty funny, with illustrations and all)

89

A Jesus Fish-Bone: The Life and Experiences of JCanon

by GetBusyLiving in

i just thought i would start a thread wherein we could get some background info on jcanon without any of the end times predictions.

just want to get a feel for who this person is, what type of environment helped mold his world view, and what his likes and dislikes are.

whatever your opinion of him you have to admit that he's a character.

Hellrider

What does JCanon mean? Jesus Canon?

It means Jesus Christ Anonymous.

To make a long story short: JC woke up in a dumpster one morning, and saw a strange cloud formation in the sky. It resembled the Son of Man (a picture of JC when he was a child), a lake of fire, and all sorts of apocalyptic stuff. JC decided that meant he was the Messiah. He then when camping with a friend, and they roasted marshmallows and talked about Jesus and the Bible and Diana Ross and stuff, and then arrived at the conclusion that his friend was John the baptist. They then dressed up in drag and made hot, steamy love by the bonfire. And aside from some strange WTS-inspired calculations/interpretations of Daniel and Revelation, that`s pretty much it. Not much different than the stuff Russell and Miller were up to in their day.

We love you, JC. Don`t let the critics get you down!

18

Hiding the Divine Name - The WT Society and Hebrew Versions of the NT

by cabasilas in

in the spring of 1980, i was re-investigating my beliefs as a jehovah's witness and this led me to discussions with some people who had done a bit of research on the new world translation.

one of the questions that was disturbing me was the apparent ease the new testament writers quoted old testament passages about jehovah and applied them to christ.

i knew i couldn't get away with that at the kingdom hall, but why did paul, peter and other disciples do this?

Hellrider

Hi!

This Hebrew version translated the Greek text as: "Sanctify YHWH God who is the Messiah [ YHWH Elohim ha Mashiach] in your hearts." These were the very passages I had been struggling with. Did these Hebrew versions the Watchtower Society had cited to support "restoring" the name "Jehovah" to the NT actually apply that name to Jesus also?

These hebrew versions of the NT that the Society "relied on" (actually; used as an alibi!) are totally messed up! They are from the 12th/13th century, translated into hebrew by men with hebrew as first language (jews), men who were not exactly unbiased when it came to the actual christian tradition (!!) of confusing yhwh with Christ. Christianity is to some extent founded on this confusion - it`s part of the "mysticism" that eventually led the trinity-doctrine in the first place - a confusion that the jews who were resonsible for these translations almost a thousand years ago - rejected - ironically adding to the confusion with their translations!

47

Luke 16: 19-24

by vlad in

19but a certain man was rich, and he used to deck himself with purple and linen, enjoying himself from day to day with magnificence.20but a certain beggar named laz arus used to be put at his gate, full of ulcers21and desiring to be filled with the things dropping from the table of the rich man.

yes, too, the dogs would come and lick his ulcers.22now in course of time the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom [position] of abraham.. also, the rich man died and was buried.23and in ha des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw abraham afar off and laz arus in the bosom [position] with him.24so he called and said, father abraham, have mercy on me and send laz arus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because i am in anguish in this blazing fire.. my old account does not seem to be working, so i am not a new member but i did not post loads anyway.

i am an now an athiest myself but anytime i ask jws about a scripture they say its pointless discussing it with me becuase i am only doing it to tear them down.

Hellrider

Likewise

47

Luke 16: 19-24

by vlad in

19but a certain man was rich, and he used to deck himself with purple and linen, enjoying himself from day to day with magnificence.20but a certain beggar named laz arus used to be put at his gate, full of ulcers21and desiring to be filled with the things dropping from the table of the rich man.

yes, too, the dogs would come and lick his ulcers.22now in course of time the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom [position] of abraham.. also, the rich man died and was buried.23and in ha des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw abraham afar off and laz arus in the bosom [position] with him.24so he called and said, father abraham, have mercy on me and send laz arus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because i am in anguish in this blazing fire.. my old account does not seem to be working, so i am not a new member but i did not post loads anyway.

i am an now an athiest myself but anytime i ask jws about a scripture they say its pointless discussing it with me becuase i am only doing it to tear them down.

Hellrider

Mondo1:

The issue is that you have no exegetical basis for finding Jesus to be speaking of two different heavens. It is plain to all readers that the same heaven that Jesus came from is the one that he is saying that no man has gone to. Beyond that, as Elijah was seen going into the earthly heavens, such an interpretation is ruled out, for the chariot carried him up into the air. Thus, as I have said, Elijah did not go to the spirit realm, but into the sky (heaven) and then, naturally, to another place on the earth.

That is absurd, it goes agains all common sense, and it goes against all the writer of 2 Kings was trying to say/emphasise. In the mind of the author, Elijah clearly has a heavenly mandate! - like the other "great" prophets. He calls down fire from heaven, he raise the dead, and in stead of dying, he ascends to heaven....with such a heavenly mandate, it is absurd and ridicolous to claim that he was just "relocated" to somewhere else on earth. You won`t find a single, serious theologian that would support such a view. To claim that Elijah was simply relocated goes agains all that is known about contemporary jewish litterature. Remember, in jewish thought (in the Midrash), Elijah was not the only of the "prophets of old" that had escaped death by being swept away into heaven: Moses and Abraham did too. And voilà, Abraham appears in the very passage in Luke, that we are discussing.

The "relocation" argument is probably the silliest argument I have ever heard from a JW. Their "no-life-after-death"-doctrine is so utterly un-Biblical that there is no wonder that only retards, kids raised as JWs and people with no knowledge of the Bible what-so-ever can be converted.
Anyway: Jesus himself is very clear on this issue:

Mark 12.26,27: "But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken"

Yup, that`s right. Not "those that will live again, some time in the future", but....: THE GOD OF THE LIVING" (present tense).

Amen

9

A Witness wrote his OWN Bible Translation!

by B_Deserter in

http://www.geocities.com/simplifiedbible/index.html.

i'm not sure what to make of this.

i wonder if this is going to be taken down soon due to the new km..

Hellrider

This is his translation of Revelation 22.5: There will be no night there. They need no lamp, neither light of the sun, for Jehovah God gives them light.

...I sure wonder if that`s in the original manuscripts...

47

Luke 16: 19-24

by vlad in

19but a certain man was rich, and he used to deck himself with purple and linen, enjoying himself from day to day with magnificence.20but a certain beggar named laz arus used to be put at his gate, full of ulcers21and desiring to be filled with the things dropping from the table of the rich man.

yes, too, the dogs would come and lick his ulcers.22now in course of time the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom [position] of abraham.. also, the rich man died and was buried.23and in ha des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw abraham afar off and laz arus in the bosom [position] with him.24so he called and said, father abraham, have mercy on me and send laz arus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because i am in anguish in this blazing fire.. my old account does not seem to be working, so i am not a new member but i did not post loads anyway.

i am an now an athiest myself but anytime i ask jws about a scripture they say its pointless discussing it with me becuase i am only doing it to tear them down.

Hellrider

Lol, nice LtCmd, you`re showing him the logical conclusion to all his loopholes. I was thinking the same thing, but I`m not gonna bother anymore with someone that has a lawyer-approach to the Bible, as he is (in true Watchtowe-fashion) will just come up with new (no matter how bizarre !!!) loopholes to your (logical) arguments. It just gets boring. Anyway, anyone with a real understanding of the Bible can tell that he is full of ..(you know what).

47

Luke 16: 19-24

by vlad in

19but a certain man was rich, and he used to deck himself with purple and linen, enjoying himself from day to day with magnificence.20but a certain beggar named laz arus used to be put at his gate, full of ulcers21and desiring to be filled with the things dropping from the table of the rich man.

yes, too, the dogs would come and lick his ulcers.22now in course of time the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom [position] of abraham.. also, the rich man died and was buried.23and in ha des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw abraham afar off and laz arus in the bosom [position] with him.24so he called and said, father abraham, have mercy on me and send laz arus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because i am in anguish in this blazing fire.. my old account does not seem to be working, so i am not a new member but i did not post loads anyway.

i am an now an athiest myself but anytime i ask jws about a scripture they say its pointless discussing it with me becuase i am only doing it to tear them down.

Hellrider

Mondo1: The text says:

"into heaven."

To assume that he was swept away up into the sky only to be relocated to somewhere else on earth, is...not just unlikely, it is impossible. If the author had meant to say that Elijah was relocated, then that is what he would have said. There is no way the writer would have brought up heaven if he meant that he was just relocated. When it comes to eschatology, I don`t think the jews were that big on "relocation", if you know what I mean.