Posts by Hellrider

39

Question (s) from the newbie

by bite me in

go easy on me, please, as i am new to this board.

i have a question, i know chances are this has been answered in one form or another.

but can anyone tell me, exactly or roughly how much of the bible jw's actually use.

Yes, they do read the entire Bible, but in this (exact) manner: Let`s start at the beginning, with Genesis: The book of Genesis is being read, Adam and Eve in the garden, the serpent tempting Eve etc. Then, instead of just reading that story (or any other story, such as Noahs), the "story" being read is read in the context of their entire belief system, and is read even "symbolically" in relation to the rest of the Jehovahs Witnesses doctrines. The garden of Eden is the earthly paradise that is to be restored (after Armageddon) - when mankind (JWs, that is...) have proven themselves to God, and rejected the devil that Adam and Eve let themselves be fooled by. I bet many JWs even picture (in their minds) how they will walk thru the garden-gate guarded by angels, that Adam and Eve had been forced to walk out of. And the story goes on: The ark of Noah is almost symbolic of the organisation (the Watchtower and the JWs) - and so - while a "book" is being studied (or rather a chapter of a book, really) - the audiences attention is drawn to other parts of the Bible too, passages in other books (books that in reality has nothing to do with the book being studied). In short: Every story/chapter/book is read with the overall doctrines of the JWs in mind - and so, the interpretation of each particular story/chapter/book - is done in light of the overall doctrines.

Of course, this leads to a lot of BS. The Bible was never supposed to be read that way in the first place.

6

The Folly of Calculating the Date of the End from the Bible

by WTWizard in

i have seen various ways of calculating dates from the bible.

the one the tower uses is the seven times, based on incorrect lengths of the year and faulty dates.

however, i have been seeing various posts right here on this forum (i will not mention any names since all i want is to expose the folly of predicting the end, not start or continue a flaming war).. i have been seeing calculations based on the number of books in the bible.

Hellrider

Homer Simpson on predicting the end of the world: "

"Let's See, 414 Verses In The Book Of Revelations, Divide By The Number Of People At The Last Supper, Subtract The Number Of Filipinos In The Bible.."

...and that`s how he found his date.

("Thank God its Doomsday", episode 19 of The Simpsons, the 16th season)

14

Has the WTS changed its view on carbon dating?

by Jourles in

i remember back to my high school days when the blue evolution or creation book was all the rage.

in it, i recall the wts using several reasons as to why we cannot trust carbon dating whatsoever.

has there been any change in their thinking in the last 15 or so years or any new developments on this front?

Hellrider

About that wallpainting:

"It looks like a modernist painting. Some of those who saw it have likened it to work by (Paul) Klee. Through carbon dating we established it is from around 9,000 B.C.," Coqueugniot said.

I only see this as a very valid argument against the decay of modern art, nothing more...

26

Is Iran's President Announcing the Emergence of the Anti-Christ?

by Perry in

his speech to the un today was extremely religious.

he made repeated references to a savior who would soon bring peace.

did anyone else get the heebie-jeebies that listened to his speech?

Hellrider

From the article posted above:

The Shiite Muslim President of Iran, Ahmadinejad, is deeply committed to the Islamic Messiah, al Mahdi. There have been many through the years claiming to be the Hidden Imam but Ahmadinejad believes he is yet to come. He claims that he is to personally prepare the world for the coming Mahdi. In order to save the world, it must be in a state of chaos and subjugation. Ahmadinejad claims he was “directed by Allah to pave the way for the glorious appearance of the Mahdi”.

So, in other words, we have a president in Iran that believes that he is playing a part in Gods plan (paving the way for the Mahdi), and at the same time, we have a president in the U.S. that believes he is playing a part in Gods plan, elected by evangelists (he is a born-again too) - who believes that for Jesus Crhist to return, Israel has to be in posession of a certain amount of territory (such as the temple heights - on which there is now a mosque).

This is gonna be interesting...(in an extremely surreal and ironic sort of way - kaboooooom !!!!)

7

Church of God=Reverse Trinity doctrine, followers leave, it's bunkrupt!!

by Witness 007 in

world wide church of god founded by hurbert armstrong 1933 till he died 1986 with hundreds of thousands of followers, airplanes, thier own t.v show, their own colleges, and many properties.

it published "the plain truth" magazine a rival to "awake.".

joseph tkach took over in 1986 like rutherford he had some plans of his own!

Hellrider

Doctrines changed: There is no Trinity, God is One, the Holy spirit is his "force" Jesus his Son. / {Now there is a Trinity 3 in 1 God}
:Birthdays, Christmas, Easter are Pagan and not followed. / {Now Okay}
:Jesus died on a stake / {No a Cross}

I would say that all these doctrine-changes are for the better. They are more in harmony with the Bible.

The religion almost disolves into a hundred groups. Lack of funds {Tithing 10% of wages to church} causes the church to sell all properties and airplanes, publishing and magazine sales drop to record low.

Good. It`s easier for a camel to slip thru a needles eye than for a rich man to...well, you know the rest. Or you should know the rest. And then you should care.

This is why the Watchtower won't change it's policy on Blood...it would shatter the Organisation.

Yes, and then they would lose all their money, properties, airplanes...it would be a disaster. Oh, the humanity. Oh, the horror. Being poor, that would bring reproach on "Jehovahs organisation".

...

17

Misuse of "impaled"

by RebelWife in

the jw use of this word gets my knickers in a right twist!

when someone is impaled, it means he is run through with something.

the thing he is run through with is the thing he is impaled on or by.

Hellrider

Epistle of Barnabas (80-120 C.E. !!)

Barnabas 9:7
For the scripture saith; And Abraham circumcised of his household
eighteen males and three hundred. What then was the knowledge
given unto him? Understand ye that He saith the eighteen first,
and then after an interval three hundred In the eighteen 'I'
stands for ten, 'H' for eight. Here thou hast JESUS (IHSOYS). And
because the cross in the 'T' was to have grace, He saith also three
hundred. So He revealeth Jesus in the two letters, and in the
remaining one the cross.

Barnabas 12:2
And He saith again in Moses, when war was waged against Israel by men
of another nation, and that He might remind them when the war was
waged against them that for their sins they were delivered unto
death; the Spirit saith to the heart of Moses, that he should make a
type of the cross and of Him that was to suffer, that unless, saith
He, they shall set their hope on Him, war shall be waged against them
for ever. Moses therefore pileth arms one upon another in the midst
of the encounter, and standing on higher ground than any he stretched
out his hands, and so Israel was again victorious. Then, whenever he
lowered them, they were slain with the sword.

Barnabas 12:4
And again in another prophet He saith; The whole day long have I
stretched out My hands to a disobedient people that did gainsay My
righteous way.

Barnabas 12:5
Again Moses maketh a type of Jesus, how that He must suffer, and that
He Himself whom they shall think to have destroyed shall make alive
in an emblem when Israel was falling.

17

Misuse of "impaled"

by RebelWife in

the jw use of this word gets my knickers in a right twist!

when someone is impaled, it means he is run through with something.

the thing he is run through with is the thing he is impaled on or by.

Hellrider

When I hear the word "impaled", I picture a person being lifted up, and, while still in an upright position (...) he is dropped down, being impaled from the "bottom" up, in an .."embarassing", horrid manner with horrible sexual abuse/ torture as an undertone. It`s strange that a group considering themselves to be (the only) true christians would use that word the way they do, about Jesus. I don`t think you`re the only one that cringe when hearing that word.

32

Any Supporting Scriptures for the Trinity in the OLD Testament?

by eclipse in

i did not want to hijack this great thread that booker-t started:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/142032/1.ashxon the trinity.. i know the supporting scriptures for the trinity in the new testament.... i was wondering, are there any ones that support the trinity, or even a dual-god in the old testament?.

thank you in advance for all of your comments and scriptures.. .

Hellrider

Eclipse: IP is right. There are passages referring to God(s) in plural. These have nothing to do with trinitarianism, they are just remnants from the polytheistic beginnings of judaism. I would just like to add that the trinity-doctrine is not based on single passages (alone), but it is a doctrine that was developed to solve problems that would otherwise arise (contradictions). In the old Testament, Yahweh calls himself "the first and the last", in the NT, Jesus is called "the first and the last". In the OT, Yahweh created the world (alone), in the NT (Gospel of John), nothing is created except thru the son (he created the world). There are countless such contradictions between the NT and the OT that can be solved in one of two ways: A) Create a harmonizing doctrine (the trinity-doctrine), or B) Twist the scriptures. The church early on decided to go with A. The JWs, and other, modern anti-trinitarian "christians" have chosen B).

Trinitarian christians will of course use whatever they can find (such as the plurals mentioned by IP) to support the trinity-doctrine. Here`s how Christians themselves view the (alleged) trinitarianism in the OT:

http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Faith/1998-01-02/trinity.html

http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Faith/1998-03-04/trinity.html

...some of it "holds water", some of it doesn`t (when viewed from a historic rather than christian angle). Nonetheless, its a good read.

37

Is this the BEST of all POSSIBLE WORLDS? Depends on this...!

by Terry in

if humanity were created by a supreme being who was essentially good wouldn't this be the best of all possible worlds?.

both adam and eve lacked what they desired most.

how is that the best of all possible worlds?.

Hellrider

Both Adam and Eve lacked what they desired most. How is that the best of all possible worlds?
Wouldn't it be necessary at a minimum that the nature of humanity exactly match their limits?

If you choose to define "yearning/longing for what you can`t have" as evil, then yes, you are right. I choose not to. In my language we have a saying that goes something like: "Only that which is lost, lasts forever". So I don`t see that as an argument against Gods existence. That doesn`t mean I believe in him/her/it, of course...

30

I just can't shake this feeling about the word Jehovah, and Now I know why

by A-Team in

had to do a little historic research to find out that jehovah is actually 2 hebrew words compounded: yah(h) and hovah.

yah(h) means: "i exist," "i am," "i create," or "i will be or bring into being.

hovah means: ruin, mischif, but yet,it's root, havvah,translates as: "calamity, iniquity, mischief, mischievous (thing), naughtiness, naughty, noisome, perverse thing, substance, very wickedness.

Hellrider

Narkissos, thanks. I actually even understood it too. The one possibility that is not excluded is the one connection to hyh (to become). Interesting point about Isaiah 43.10, in which yhwh speaks and says I am (he). Would be interesting to hear what jws thinks of that one ((ani hu = egw eimi (without "he" - but that`s still pretty close))