Posts by Hellrider

37

JW says: DEVIL has hold on my brother in military

by I-follow-the-narrow-path in

i thought that would get your attention.. actually... my brother is alive.before i got involved, strongly.

with the jws.

my brothers was sent off and is now overseas in iraq with his platoon (he is in the army).

Hellrider

Hey people, go easy on her, she`s young. As for the original question:

What if he dies in Iraq and I am still studying with her, what will she think? What will she say if that happens?

She will say "He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword" (Matthew 26:52). And that`s probably all you`re gonna get from her on that issue. Oh, and of course, she will tell you that he will be ressurected, of course, because he died before Armageddon.

I-F-T-N-P:

I guess maybe... I don't know... maybe I said it to please her, because I enjoy knowing I do please her.

Maybe that response was conditioned. I don't know what to think right now... I really never thought why I answered so quickly.
Maybe to please her... maybe to get approval. I just have people issues and attachment issues, so it is easy for me to get friends,
but not easy for me to keep them.

Yes, you did. She allready has a hold on you, and you feel good when you obey her, don`t you? But tell me, how do you feel overall and deep down inside? IFTNP, I think you should talk to someone about all of this. Talk to your parents about what really goes on in that "Bible study", about what she is teaching you about the Bible, about what a JW is expected to do once she is baptised (field service, 4 meetings a week, giving up higher education, pioneering, etc), and talk to your parents about possibly getting some professional help? Maybe a counselor at school? Or a therapist? (they`re not dangerous, you know, everybody got one ).

People, don`t be hard on IFTNP. She is young and impressionable. No need to scare her away from this forum. This forum might be the last barrier between sanity and cult-life for her.

Oh, and IFTNP:

It seems you already assumed that I have not looked into the biblical questions...

I dislike researching exspecially on something I am involved with right now.

Like... for example: lets say you have a dance coming up and you really are excited to go then someone tells you that it has been canceled. SURE you would enjoy people telling you, so you would not be hurt in the end, but it would hurt either way. I guess I am scared to be proven wrong, or that the things I do are wrong. It is fear... fear that I am doing something wrong. Fear that without these people I wont be happy (not like now). I know.. I know it is "love bombing"-- I realize that, but it feels so good, even if it is not real.

It is like... in the example; I am so excited to go to the dance, but even if it is canceled... I wouldn't want to hear about it.

This is not a school dance we`re talking about here. It`s the rest of your life!

17

Get`em while they`re young! (JWs, this is for you)

by Hellrider in

she is only 17, and she is having a "bible study" (watchtower indoctrination program) with a jehovahs witness-woman.

and, after chatting a bit with her here, i can easily see in her posts that she is a very young, naive girl, who knows little about religion, the bible, and probably life in general.

she is probably brainwashed beyond hope allready.

Hellrider

Thank you, Kid-A. Yes, this girls parents must be pretty naive. I guess to most people, JWs are just those people who are very well dressed (always), who knock on doors and stands on street corners with magazines. It looks pretty harmless, but behind that pretty fasade, there is an ugly, ugly "Truth". I guess in the eyes of most people, the JWs aren`t that cultish (they`re not like hare Krishnas with shaved heads and stuff...) It`s to bad noone knows who this girl is, so they could contact her parents and talk some sense into them. On the other hand, judging from her posts, I think it`s to late allready.

I mean, brainwashing your own kids and having them baptised at a young age, that`s bad enough. But even going after someone elses kids, sucking them into cult-life at such a tender age...that really sucks.

17

Get`em while they`re young! (JWs, this is for you)

by Hellrider in

she is only 17, and she is having a "bible study" (watchtower indoctrination program) with a jehovahs witness-woman.

and, after chatting a bit with her here, i can easily see in her posts that she is a very young, naive girl, who knows little about religion, the bible, and probably life in general.

she is probably brainwashed beyond hope allready.

Hellrider

My point with the post was to highlight that a 17-yearold is, no matter which way you cut it, still to young to know what`s good for you. At 17, you`re still a child. You have to be 18 or 21 in most countries to buy alcohol. Shopping for God at that young age can be much more dangerous than shopping for booze. When I hear about people baptised at 12, 10, 8, 7, I am just horrified. What the hell are the adults in the situation even thinking. Right, but there are, of course, many sick people in this world. Looks like the politicians have absolutely no knowledge about cults at all. It should be illegal to push religion on people that young.

This is what I wanted to say by that post. But I apologise to the young girl in question, I shouldn`t have used a real-world-example.

17

Get`em while they`re young! (JWs, this is for you)

by Hellrider in

she is only 17, and she is having a "bible study" (watchtower indoctrination program) with a jehovahs witness-woman.

and, after chatting a bit with her here, i can easily see in her posts that she is a very young, naive girl, who knows little about religion, the bible, and probably life in general.

she is probably brainwashed beyond hope allready.

Hellrider

PeacefulPete and dr-Jekyll: You`re right, I did sound condescending in that post. I never meant to insult her intelligence, I just wanted to point out that from her posts, it was very obvious that she was as young as her age indicates. She appears to know little about the Bible, and about how manipulative people can be. This is very natural of course, she is very young. My outrage was directed towards the people who obviously think it`s ok to have a "study" with someone that young. My apologies to the young girl in question, I didn`t mean to insult her, that was absolutely not my intentions.

17

Get`em while they`re young! (JWs, this is for you)

by Hellrider in

she is only 17, and she is having a "bible study" (watchtower indoctrination program) with a jehovahs witness-woman.

and, after chatting a bit with her here, i can easily see in her posts that she is a very young, naive girl, who knows little about religion, the bible, and probably life in general.

she is probably brainwashed beyond hope allready.

Hellrider

There is a new girl on this forum. She is only 17, and she is having a "Bible study" (Watchtower indoctrination program) with a Jehovahs Witness-woman. From what I understand, after having chatted with her in a thread on this forum, her parents are not JWs, but are allowing her to have this study. And, after chatting a bit with her here, I can easily see in her posts that she is a very young, naive girl, who knows little about religion, the Bible, and probably life in general. She is probably brainwashed beyond hope allready. It doesn`t take long when they`re that young. So JWs, I want to ask you this:

Do you think it`s right and fair to have one of your "Bible studies" with a girl that young? What the hell does a 17-yearold know about anything? How would you feel if you heard that the Mormons or Scientologists or whatever other wacky group were converting 17-yearolds?

I can`t fucking wait to hear your responses.

SHAME ON YOU, JWs!

99

Door to Door

by I-follow-the-narrow-path in

just wondering... what do you think about the jw going door to door?

do you like it or dislike it?

my view is ( weather something is false or not) i think it is great someone shares what they love with someone else.

Hellrider

Elisabeth:

Sorry... but I don't really like reading stuff from the bible that goes against the WTS. I like reading lights stuff. I get very nervous reading stuff, that is in depth, going against the religion. I mean, sure I want to know, but I feel really nervous reading that stuff.... kinda guilty and I honestly DO NOT know why.

I know why. It is because you allready feel loyalty towards what you believe is an organisation representing God, and in the back of your mind, that makes you "block out" anything that might speak against the organisation. You allready truly believe that the WTBTS is "Jehovahs mouthpiece on earth in our day". In your subconscious, the organisation has allready been elevated to the size of a prophet. And who dare speak against a prophet? But remember what it says in the Gospels, "in the last days, many false prophets will come forward to mislead the people". They will come like wolves in sheeps clothing, pretending to be good shepherds, while in reality, they are the complete opposite. Also, this means that it is probably allready to late for you. You say that you like reading "light stuff", and yes, WT-litterature (about the Bible) truly is "light stuff". And everything that is "light" is oversimplified and almost always wrong! If you truly want to learn what the Bible really, really teaches, then you should go elsewhere than the WT-litterature. And isn`t that what you really want to do? Learn about the Bible, I mean? And what the Bible really teaches? Are you not searching for truth (not to be mistaken for a religion that refers to itself as "the Truth")? Continue in your search, it is a life-long quest. And you will not find it in any organisation. The Bible nowhere (!!!) says that "the truth" will be in an organisation. You should read some books written by real theologians.

99

Door to Door

by I-follow-the-narrow-path in

just wondering... what do you think about the jw going door to door?

do you like it or dislike it?

my view is ( weather something is false or not) i think it is great someone shares what they love with someone else.

Hellrider

About the Michael is Jesus-doctrine: It is correct that in a couple of places in the OT, Michael is given a Messianic role. The confusion here partially lies in thedifference between what the word "Messiah" means today (after 2000 years of christianity) and what it actually meant 2000 years ago (in its proper context). Today, of course, the Messiah is a character that has become synonymious with Jesus Christ. 2000 years ago in Palestine/Judah, it meant "messenger of God", sort of like "prophet", but much stronger. The JWs use verses like 1 Thessalonians 4:16: "the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet", and an almost identical verse is given in Revelation. From this verse the JWs conclude that the Lord Jesus Christ is an archangel because he has "an archangel’s voice." This is a very far stretch. But the most compelling argument against the "Michael is Jesus"-view, is in Revelation, which in my opinion does away with the argument all together, in several different verses.

In Revelation 1:12-20 , the Son of Man stands between 7 golden lampstands, which symbolises the 7 congregations (to which John is writing the letter). The Son of Man is Jesus Christ (identified by passages like "I am the first and last", and he "holds the keys to Hades in his hand" and "the one who was dead, but look, I am now alive" etc, you get the picture), and he holds seven stars in his hand! And the seven stars are identified as the "7 angels" (verse 20), and these 7 angels are the 7 archangels in judeo-christian mythology. These angels are listed in 1 Enoch, and are Uriel, Raphael, Raguel, Michael, Sariel, Gabriel, and Remiel.

Chapter 5 also has the same thing. The Lamb (Jesus Christ) suddenly appears in the circle, a Lamb that "appeared to have been killed", and he had " seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth". These "7 spirits" are identified in verse 4:5 as "the seven angels of God", notably the arch angels (listed above). And the 7 angels are still hanging around in chapter 7:10 They were shouting out in a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God, to the one seated on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 7:11 "And all the angels stood there in a circle around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they threw themselves down with their faces to the ground before the throne and worshiped God"

So Michael the archangel is identified as a different character than the Lamb/the Son of Man/Jesus Christ/ the Word of God. Michael is one of the angels that are protecting the Lamb.

ALSO-- I noticed I have been picking up things from my teacher
I notice I explain things to people the way she explains it to me
I have no idea why I do that, but I do. Someone will tell people why the trinity is false, or about holidays (the same why my teacher taught me)
I don't mean to do it.. it is an impulse I guess

Perfectly natural. Pretty soon, you will be fluent in JW-speak.

"JW-paranoia, that makes you think that anyone who are criticising your religion, or trying to "de-convert you", basically are the spawn on Satan"

--- ARE you serious here? I don't think you are the devil, of course not. I just think some people are mislead. There is a difference between being a spawn of the devil and being mislead

No, not right now. But pretty soon, there will be a voice in the back of your mind telling you that anyone who dare criticise the JW-religion, is an opposer, someone who works under the influence of the devil. Also, you will eventually (perhaps you allready are) be equating the JW-interpretation of the Bible with the Bible itself! You will believe that whenever someone criticises the JW-interpretation of the Bible, that they are people who automatically dismiss the Bible, the holy word of God, and consequently, that means they are from the Devil himself. This is another step in your programming. Pretty soon you will believe that the Catholic church is part of Satans organisation.

This is called brainwashing. Your are good on your way allready.

99

Door to Door

by I-follow-the-narrow-path in

just wondering... what do you think about the jw going door to door?

do you like it or dislike it?

my view is ( weather something is false or not) i think it is great someone shares what they love with someone else.

Hellrider

Dear I-Follow-The-Right-Path: I usually don`t spend so much time on the JWs that show up on this site, but you are so very young, and I think you need to get some things straight. I was raised by JW-parents, and I know first-hand how much damage this religion can cause. First of all, I assume that allready, in the back of your mind, there are these early seeds of JW-paranoia, that makes you think that anyone who are criticising your religion, or trying to "de-convert you", basically are the spawn on Satan. This is, whether you like it or not, a typical sign of mind-controlling cults. To that you will say "but that doesn`t matter, because it is the Truth". Well, so does all other cult-members, whether they are mormons, branch Davidians or whatever. They all believe that it doesn`t matter that their religion has the typical traits of mind-controllin cults, because their religion is the truth! I could easily pick the JW-religion/Bible puzzle apart for you, but it would take months to teach you why this religion is not the correct interpretation of the Bible. Actually, speaking of a "correct interpretation" might not be best way to express what I am trying to say, but that is something for you to learn later. All I can ask of you is that you stick around on this forum, and read stuff with an open mind. As for your response to my previous post:

That is a good question
I do not know where specifically it says that about Pagan holidays
But I do know that it says not to touch unclean things
Certianly Pagan traditions are unclean

I`ll tell you where: Nowhere. The reference to "unclean things" is a reference to things that were forbidden according to judaic law. The whole distinction "pagan" traditions versus "christian" traditions is not mentioned in the Bible, it is a view that is the result of 2000 years of christianity. In fact, the early christian traditions and symbols were based partially on pagan tradition. The cross is a pagan symbol. "But the use of the cross is uncorrect, the early christians didn`t believe Jesus was put on a cross, it was a stake" will you now think, because that is what your are learning from the JWs. Well, they are wrong. The early christians believed Jesus was crucified on a cross, which is, yes, a "pagan symbol". And it was probably a cross, and not a stake. And an even earlier christian symbol, the fish, was originally also a "pagan symbol".

Of course I think my change is GOOD

I mean it has given me purpose in life... I am actually doing meaningful things each day (e.g: studying the bible each day)... rather than play video games as much as I used too

Ok, purpose is good. But what you know think is a purpose, might turn out to be many wasted years. There are a number of things you can do to get purpose. Get an education. Excercise. Go to church (a normal church, where the priest doesn`t require blind obedience from you, the Bible nowhere says that the christians are to blindly follow the leader, just Christ himself!).

Yes I would be following Man, but those men follow God

That is what they are saying, and for now, this is what you believe. But just because someone says that they are good shepherds and following God and all that, this doesn`t mean that they are truthful.

"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep?s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves (Matt. 7:15).

"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; therefore be shrewd as serpents, and innocent as doves" (Matt. 10:16)

It says in the bible 144,000 will get into heaven, but others will live on earth

No, it does not.

Jesus, I learned today, is Micheal the archangel

Any of you know that too ?, I read about it in this book

No, Jesus is not Michael the Archangel. Of course we know that you are taught to believe that, all of us on this board have spent many years in the JWs. But it is not a correct interpretation of the Bible.

I want to know... I already have the trust of my JW teacher. That I will continue going to the meetngs and meeting for bible study with her.

What will happen if one day I tell her.. I can not do this?

And I stop attending meeting and having bible study

What will be the result?

Try it and find out. No, seriously, she might be a nice lady, and stay in contact with you. But JWs are taught that it is pointless to continue wasting time on people who are reluctant in receiving the message. She will probably stop having much contact with you.

Jehovah will kill little children?

You mean in Armeggedon ?

Yes. This far, you have probably been taught that "oh, we don`t know who will be saved, only Jehovah knows", but that is because you are young, and not baptised yet. But eventually, you will get the version that JWs truly believe, and are taught to believe, namely that the only people that will be saved, are baptised Jehovahs Witnesses in good standing, and their children (minors).

I-F-T-N-P, this is how it is: I was born into a JW-family, 3rd generation on my fathers side. My mother was once just like you, young and searching. She was converted as a result of door-to-door in her mid-twenties, with three young children, my older brother and sisters. Mom married my dad, and me and my little sister was born. What followed was a childhood from hell (and hence, my nickname on the forum). Jehovahs Witnesses beat their children, and to a child, growing up hearing about Armageddon and demons (you haven`t gotten to the demon-part yet, I assume), can really mess up your mind. Of us 5 children who grew up under the same roof (I have one more bro, from my dads first marriage, he was not allowed to see him, go figure why), only one of us got thru it relatively unscarred. The rest of us are messed up in various ways. Depression, anxiety, alcohol abuse, you name it. Listen: You are very young. You could be the start of generations of messed-life in your family ( I assume you will eventually marry and have children). Don`t do it, at least not yet. Wait! Don`t get baptised! Do much more research first! And try to keep an open mind! For a real and correct understanding of the Bible, buy some good litterature (non-religious,but historical) about the Bible, Bible commentaries and another translation than the NWT (which really is a mistranslation of the Bible, suited to fit JW-theology).

Take care.

99

Door to Door

by I-follow-the-narrow-path in

just wondering... what do you think about the jw going door to door?

do you like it or dislike it?

my view is ( weather something is false or not) i think it is great someone shares what they love with someone else.

Hellrider

Dear I-f-t-n.p:

If I read that mind control book... it will be so biased. I can not read that. :( some of my friends already told me that they would have nothing to do with me if I continue on the path. I don't care what truth is though... every one keeps talking about truth to me. No one can proof truth... I mean NO ONE. Sure people have the bible, but no one can proof it. I don't care about what really is truth, even if I think I have it, what matters is what makes me happy. And maybe soon I wil find this doesn't make me happy. -- Also... yes Pagan holidays. They were happy worshipping the devil I am sure. Very, very happy. --- one of my friends and I had a fight once about how I was "brainwashed by the Jehovah's Witness," but that is not possible. I have conciously decided to be "A study"-- and I can decided to leave if I want

You mentioned in another post that some of your "worldly" friends have started to avoid you, saying that they won`t have anything to do with you if you continue with the JWs. That is probably because they feel that you have changed, which of course you will say is a good thing, in your view, what is new about you, is "spirituality". Of course, according to JW-doctrine, you have no spirituality, because Jesus is not your mediator, he is mediator only for the 144K, combined, of course, with the fact that according to JW-doctrine, you have no soul. You have no spirituality, you don`t really follow Jesus, you follow the WTS, which is the link between you and Jesus Christ and God. You are supposed to be a workhorse for them, delivering magazines, and for that you will be rewarded with eternal (worldly life). But anyway, that is a whole different story, what I do want to do though, is warn you a bit about what is to follow: Pretty soon, you will be "guided" by the elders in matters of bad association/worldly influence. Your worldly friends aren`t the only ones that are going to want to avoid you, pretty soon you will be told that you should avoid your worldly friends, unless there is a chanse that they might want to have a "Bible study" (you know, learning how to rip passages out of context in the Bible and combine them in such a way that it supports JW-doctrine, "cut and paste", as I call it) with you. After a while, all your friends will be JWs. Now, look at the highlighted part of your own words above. IF you decide to leave, all your new JW-friends will break off all contact with you! This is called shunning! And then you will be left with noone.

Btw, about "pagan holidays". What you wrote about pagan holidays, is correct. But where does it say in the Bible that you are not supposed to celebrate them? Do you even know where? Are you planning to get married, by the way? You do know that wedding rings is a pagan tradition, don`t you? So why do all JWs wear a wedding ring?

28

The Passion of the Christ

by I-follow-the-narrow-path in

so... i just got the passion.. and i haven't watched it yet.. but going to.

what does everyone think about it ?

Hellrider

Well... I can not think for myself... at all, not really. I must think of what Jehovah wants and what the bible says. Sure the Elders are to tell others what to do, but they are of God... they follow the bible

Lesson nr.1: That is what they say they are! What someone says they are, and what they truly are, is not necessarily the same!

Think about it.