Posts by ChiChiMama

relegated it to redundancy and a no-reply status.. twenty years ago i personally knew a female jw who lived in the san diego area and worked in law enforcement.

ChiChiMama

Spaz,
Your ass will be history on this board soon.
GO AWAY TRUBLEMAKER!!!

I Edited the dreaded T word out of my post!
I still think I am right about this one.

ChiChi

18

JWForum sexist/pedophiles?

by spaz in

jw
friends

this person posted a parody to illustrate a bias in commenting on this forum.

it is entitled,"i raped him when he was 15" and the jwf admin.

relegated it to redundancy and a no-reply status.. twenty years ago i personally knew a female jw who lived in the san diego area and worked in law enforcement.

ChiChiMama

Are you saying you are mad because the discussions here are mostly about male abusers?

We are all well aware that women can be abusers too but the fact is that it is rare in comparison to the number of male abusers.Because of this it is logical that discussions will mostly be about male abusers.

Women abusers are equally as dangerous,damaging and criminal as the men are. There just in the minority statisticly.

Instead of complaining why don't you enlighten us with the female preditor cases you know of.
You are not going to make friends or get any serious discussion by accusing us of being sexist and pedophillic!

You have problems and I suggest you work on them before you attack us.

ChiChi

16

Other thoughts: the two witnesses idea

by larc in

jw
friends

whether the two witnesses to two separate incidences is new or old, it is still a very stupid policy.

let us suppose a child was raped and their parents took the matter to police.

further suppose that the police said, that they couldn't investigate because there had not been any other complaints against the rapist.

ChiChiMama

Larc,
You are so right!IT IS A HORRIBLE POLICY!r
When they refuse to act until there is more than one witness it makes them partially responsible for every child molested while they are holding to their retarted policy.They are sharers in these crimes!

You don't need two eye witnesses for a crime to be proven.

Their perversion of the application of scripture has caused so much needless pain.

ChiChi

19

Two Witnesses to WHAT !!!

by jst2laws in

i have asked this question on another thread but want to bring it to everyone's attention.

the wt society is trying to make it look as if they have always handled molestation aggressively and that very little change has been required, only 'strengthening' their policy over the years.

two witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing.

ChiChiMama

Jst,

Nevertheless, I was wondering if there is ANY CASE that can be produced where the judicial committee DID ACT on the 'witnesses to separate incident' rule?

I am sure there has been but like I said before, I don't know of any.
The ones who have been handled this way are probably deleriously happy and assume that everyone's cases are handled just like theirs.

Remember, WT had the chance to present the types of cases you are asking for and they even after 6 months didn't come up with them.
They are keeping these things confidential.

So, WT is not giving these examples that back up their claims and the people who may have experienced this policy as stated aren't speaking either.So I don't know where you are going to find what you are looking for.

There is another case I know of where two girls who were sisters were horribly abused.This is the Paul Barry case.These two couragous girls,Holly and Heather, were at the silentlambs candle vigil.

You can read this case on silentlambs too.
Barry is in prison and is still a witness in good standing because WT did not apply the two seperate witnesses to seperate events.

Yuck!

ChiChi

19

Two Witnesses to WHAT !!!

by jst2laws in

i have asked this question on another thread but want to bring it to everyone's attention.

the wt society is trying to make it look as if they have always handled molestation aggressively and that very little change has been required, only 'strengthening' their policy over the years.

two witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing.

ChiChiMama

Okay now, to summarize what I just posted.
Here we have 17 victims from seperate events of child molestation by the same child molester.They were each viewed on their own instead of being viewed as 17 witnesses total against this sicko as WT is claiming their policy would do.

There are hundreds of these types of cases!

You can find them yourself on the silentlambs website.
That's the reason silentlambs exists in the first place.
What WT says is their policy and reality are two different things.

I am sure that there have been cases where two witnesses to two seperate events was accepted but this is not what usually happens.

ChiChi

19

Two Witnesses to WHAT !!!

by jst2laws in

i have asked this question on another thread but want to bring it to everyone's attention.

the wt society is trying to make it look as if they have always handled molestation aggressively and that very little change has been required, only 'strengthening' their policy over the years.

two witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing.

ChiChiMama

Jst,
You ask

Oppositely, can you tell us of incidents where you know this has not been handled as the society says it has?

I present the following which came from this thread bold type is mine.
* http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=29147&site=3

The following is a letter written from the service department regarding the molestation of the step daughter of Daniel Fitzwater. In the Dateline program Daniel Fitzwater was shown by correspondence from a Circuit Overseer to have molested 17 JW children who unfortunately did not have two eye-witnesses for each incident.
Thus Brother Fitzwater went to prision and remains in prision as a JW in "good standing".

WATCHTOWER
BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK, INC.

COLUMBIA HEIGHTS. BROOKLYN, NEW YORK 11201-2483, U.S.A.
PHONE (718) 625-3600
SDS:SSP September 25, 1999

Dear Brother,

Please accept our apologies for the unusually long delay in responding to your letter dated May 7, 1999, in which you inquire about the situation involving your father, Daniel Fitzwater. We have given consideration to your questions and are pleased to make the following observations.

We are pleased to note your statement that you believe in Jehovah. Your concern with how he views us, which you expressed, is most appropriate. In some situations humans are not able to establish a matter with accuracy, but we know that Jehovah sees all, We are given this assurance at Hebrews 4:13 where it says., "And there is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting." This accounting with God is something that all of us, including your father, will have to make.

As we are sure you realize, because of the need for maintaining confidentiality on matters of this nature, we cannot comment on the details of any specific case, including your father's. However, we are pleased to try to address some of your questions that deal with the general procedures in handling cases in which an individual is accused of wrongdoing. First, let us assure you that you are in error on the point you made in the third paragraph of your letter. The Society does feel that your concerns are important to us, and we have given very careful attention to what you have written.

We noted in the penultimate paragraph of your letter you say-, "The fact that I personally know of none of the allegations first hand does not diminish the fact that in my opinion, I believe my father molested my stepsister Dawn." We certainly appreciate that your belief in this matter is sincere and very strong. Nevertheless, in following Scriptural procedures, the congregation can only take judicial action on the eyewitness evidence of two or more individuals, or confession. So, while we may have some strong convictions on a certain situation, without this Scriptural evidence the elders are not able to take judicial action. This in no way implies that they do not believe the one bringing them the information, but as you said in your letter it is how Jehovah sees things that is important. Since this is God's direction to those examining cases of wrongdoing, the elders must abide by the Scriptures. -Deuteronomy 17:6; 19:15; 1 Timothy 5:19.

Some matters are firmly established by sufficient evidence or by confession, or both. However, what is the situation when an individual in these cases appears to the elders handling matters to be demonstrating heartfelt repentance? In that case the elders would reprove such a

FITZWATER
SEPTEMBER 25, 1999
PAGE 2

man, as Titus said "with severity". (Titus 1:13) The decision to reprove or disfellowship, the individual is left in the hands of the elders of each congregation. It is up to them to weigh all the accusations, and all claims of repentance. In the case of Titus, you will notice the reason that the apostle Paul left him in Crete: "That you might make appointments of older men in city after city, as I gave you orders." (Titus 1:5) These older men had a responsibility to handle matters in the congregation, in the same way as the "older men" in ancient Israel would have cared for matters of this nature.

So, Brother Fitzwater, while we realize that we are dealing with imperfect men, we can have confidence that Jehovah is watching all things. if by cunning or pretense someone is able to fool men, even men appointed in the congregation, they could not fool Jehovah. In the final analysis it is to him that we all have an accounting. As the apostle Paul said at Romans 14: 1012: "We will all stand before the judgment seat of God."

As you pray for strength from Jehovah to endure in this very trying "time of the end", please act in harmony with your prayers. Do not neglect your spiritual health by missing meetings, or neglecting your personal study and Bible reading. Be assured that all of us are deeply concerned for your spiritual well-being, and more importantly that Jehovah cares for you.

With this letter, please accept a warm expression of Christian love and best wishes.

Your brothers,

Watchtower Bible and Tract Society
OF NEW YORK INC.

Edited by - silentlambs on 1 June 2002

ChiChi

19

Shaking Hands with Death - part 2

by Amazing in

jw
friends

shaking hands with death part 2: .

it was at this moment i knew it was over ... when the best people of modern medical science have done their best, and tell you they are sorry, but they did all they could do ... there is a certain final feeling, a jarring sense deep within that you have hit an immovable stone wall --- no way around it, no alternatives to contemplate, no side-stepping, no talking my way out, no escape hatch, no ace-in-the-hole, and no markers to call in ... yet, then .... what about god?

or is there an atheist in the foxhole?

ChiChiMama

Amazing,

I am crying my eyes out reading your story, still sitting on the edge of my seat.I will definitly be back tomorrow to hear part 3.

Love ya,

ChiChi

49

WT Public Information-Position On Murder

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

how would the wt public information explain their position on other crimes such as bank robbery, rape, or even murder?

would they present their position in the same way as child molestation?

if so here is an example for wt media to post with the proper changes.. .

ChiChiMama

I sure hope I didn't kill this thread!

For those who don't want to go to the trouble of looking at the letter I present the following.

This letter is from WT headquarters to a body of elders.
The elders had a man in their congregation who had committed several murders and other crimes.He is a fugutive,A Wanted man by the authourities.
The elders want to know if they should turn him in.(can you believe they have to ask?)
Their reply is unbelievable and so simular to what the way they deal with child molesters.

They tell the elders that they have no obligation to turn this murder in.The Wt even tells then that turning the man in could have "major repurcussions" on him and his wife! It is disgusting!!!

His victims family diserve closure and he diserves to face the consequences of his actions no matter when he committed these crimes.

I am telling you this is related to and on the same level as child abuse.They are both crimes and we have proof of how WT views it.

ChiChi