If myths and legends are at one time taken as fact, how do they get such status? What type of people knowingly lie about profound matters and then allow others to be taken in by that lie, knowing the lie will change someone else's life? How do these stories get embellished - seemingly without anyone realizing someone is spinning a longer and longer yarn - and why does it not smite the consciences of such people? Why do people let credulity take over and form entire religious and social systems around these stories?
Some say the Bible is fiction. How do people go about creating such fiction without getting caught-out by the majority? Why would they imagine such things, knowing they are building a false paradigm in which they will eventually be forced to live? Where is the payoff? And why do such things catch-on and spread like a brushfire?
I wasn't going to post these questions, but I ran into something that made me want to post and get your feedback on this subject.
The date of the first newspaper publication of the following information and the name of the paper in which it was published vary across references. But, the gist of the story is as follows:
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"An email says that NASA (The U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration) has stumbled across some computer generated evidence that the Bible is true. "A man named Harold Hill, a NASA consultant and president of the Curtis engine company, describes how NASA computers were looking back in time [by calculating satellite/planetary/lunar orbits for the past and future, depending on what version you read] when they issued an alert that something was wrong. "There seemed to be a day missing from the calculations. "The scientists puzzled over this a long time until someone in their midst reflected that in the Bible, there's a story about the day the sun stood still for the Hebrew leader Joshua. "This solves the puzzle, almost. "According to the computer, not an entire day was lost, but 23 hours and 20 minutes. Now there's a new problem. "What about the other 40 minutes? That's when the same employee remembers that there is another story in the Bible about a day when the sun moved backwards 10 degrees which, according to the employee, is an arc of 40 minutes...so the entire question of the missing day is solved!"
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On thing that is consistent in the reports about this urban legend is that it was started by a man named Harold Hill. He supposedly heard this story (possibly the late 19th-century version), embellished it, and started spreading it during public lectures:
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"Except for the reference to the astronauts, this version of 'the Missing Day' story has been around for nearly 30 years. "Harold Hill was a real person and he was the president of the Curtis Engine Company in Baltimore, Maryland. "He had converted to Christianity as an adult and became a popular speaker among Christian groups, because he was a successful businessman, claimed to be a consultant to NASA, and did presentations on science and the Bible. One of his most popular presentations was the story of the Missing Day. ... "One problem is that apart from Harold Hill, there is no known source for the NASA story. For many years, whenever anyone wrote to him about it, he sent a form letter which said he had misplaced the source of the information, but would send everybody a copy when he found it. "The source never materialized. "In his subsequent book, Hill dismissed all skepticism about the story and said that no substantiation was needed. "His attitude was that if people believed it and it drew them to spiritual things, it was justified." [italics mine]
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Is this the attitude that allows myths and legends to be accepted as fact? Did some among the ancient Greeks perhaps think they were doing their people a favor by spreading lies about "the gods", maybe moving their audience to a higher morality? Perhaps the storytellers were bemused by the gullibility of their audiences and the popularity they earned by their skillful crafting of fiction? [Being an X-JW, I know the power of the mind to "want" to believe something - even if it is a lie - if it offers comfort, familiarity, and the illusion of security.] Were they just campfire stories that spun out of control over time?
One individual who contacted Hill wrote:
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"In July, 1970 I wrote to Mr. Hill, raising questions such as these and requesting specific information on who had done the computer work, where they had published papers about it, etc. "Hill's reply came rather promptly: a form letter, addressed to "All who have requested additional MISSING DAY details." Mr. Hill had, by that time, received a "flood of over 1000 letters and phone calls." He says that the newspaper article was apparently adapted from "one of the many talks I have made on the subject of Science and the Bible and the perfect harmony which exists between them." "But Hill admits, "Since this incident first came to my attention about two years ago, I have misplaced the source of information and so am unable to give you names and places but will forward them as soon as I locate them. In the meantime I can only tell you that had I not considered the source to be completely reliable, I would not have made use of this information in the first place. I am interested in facts and not fiction." Sure. It is now 1979. Nearly nine years have elapsed, and Mr. Hill has not sent me the "names and places". Perhaps the source of his second-hand story was not so reliable as he thought. "The remainder of Mr. Hill's form letter was devoted to the specious blather one often hears from "born again" Christians. In fact, he says, "Since meeting Jesus Christ personally about sixteen years ago, I need no scientific proof of God's Reality." But that doesn't stop Hill from including alleged scientific evidence for religion in his public speeches. "Mr. Hill is apparently not at all concerned that he might be perpetuating a fairy tale. e even encourages further dissemination of this fable by referring those who wish to reprint the article to contact the EVENING WORLD newspaper."
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While the "missing day" story has been debunked, many haven't gotten the message and still think this story is true.
Ingenuous
JoinedPosts by Ingenuous
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Myth, Legend... Religion? How does it start?
by Ingenuous inif myths and legends are at one time taken as fact, how do they get such status?
what type of people knowingly lie about profound matters and then allow others to be taken in by that lie, knowing the lie will change someone else's life?
how do these stories get embellished - seemingly without anyone realizing someone is spinning a longer and longer yarn - and why does it not smite the consciences of such people?
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Ingenuous
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Demons and God did the same thing *gasp*
by ESTEE ininteresting thing i read in carolynn myss: .
among god stories, the jewish tradition is unique because yahweh is never depicted as being sexual.
when christianity appeared on the scene, however, its then-still-jewish followers gave their god a human body, calling him jesus, the son of god.
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Ingenuous
w02 3/15 p.19
Questions From Readers
Did
the imperfection of the virgin girl Mary have a negative effect on the conception of Jesus?Concerning "the birth of Jesus," the inspired record says: "During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit before they were united." (Matthew 1:18) Indeed, God’s holy spirit played a pivotal role in Mary’s pregnancy.
What, though, about Mary? Did her egg cell, or ovum, contribute at all toward her pregnancy? In view of God’s promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, and King David—Mary’s forefathers—the child born would have to be their genuine descendant. (Genesis 22:18; 26:24; 28:10-14; 49:10; 2 Samuel 7:16) How else could the child born to Mary be a rightful heir of those divine promises? He would have to be her actual son.—Luke 3:23-34.
Jehovah’s angel had appeared to the virgin girl Mary, saying: "Have no fear, Mary, for you have found favor with God; and, look! you will conceive in your womb and give birth to a son, and you are to call his name Jesus." (Luke 1:30, 31) Conception requires that an egg become fertile. Apparently, Jehovah God caused an ovum in Mary’s womb to become fertile, accomplishing this by the transferal of the life of his only-begotten Son from the spirit realm to earth.—Galatians 4:4.
Could a child conceived in this way by an imperfect woman be perfect and free from sin in his physical organism? How do the laws of heredity work when there is a union of perfection with imperfection? Remember that holy spirit was employed in transferring the perfect life force of God’s Son and causing the conception. This canceled out any imperfection existing in Mary’s ovum, thereby producing a genetic pattern that was perfect from its start.
In any case, we can be certain that the operation of God’s holy spirit at that time guaranteed the success of God’s purpose. The angel Gabriel had explained to Mary: "Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. For that reason also what is born will be called holy, God’s Son." (Luke 1:35) Yes, God’s holy spirit formed, as it were, a protective wall so that no imperfection or hurtful force could blemish the developing embryo from conception on.
Clearly, Jesus owed his perfect human life to his heavenly Father, not to any man. Jehovah "prepared a body" for him, and Jesus—from conception onward—was truly "undefiled, separated from the sinners."—Hebrews 7:26; 10:5.
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The JWs still blind to the implications of the 1995 generation change
by greendawn inin 1995 the wts as time finally caught up with them, they had to yield to the inevitable and admit that its hitherto interpretation of the so called 1914 last generation was erroneous.
to all intents and purposes the end was indefinitely posrponed it could be centuries away according to the new explanation.
yet the r&f do not seem to realise these implications and are apparently suffering from collective blindness they still believe the end is as near as it was before 1995, just round the corner.
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Ingenuous
As has been mentioned - It's not that the Society is particularly smart or skilled; they play upon people's emotions and psychological blindspots to maintain control.
Another BIG reason why JWs try to keep their eyes shut in the face of blinding fallacies: You can't admit you were waiting for "that generation" to die out. Doing so means admitting that you are waiting for a reward. This allows the elders, et al., to imply that you only serve Jehovah because of what you'll get out of it, i.e., you are selfish and spiritually weak - looking for a "pay-off" - and probably need some "special attention" from the elders... This also gets confusing, as the Society will do articles dangling Paradise out there as the carrot, then turn around and tell the publishers:
w93 5/15p.8 - WhyServe Jehovah?
Selfishness and fear of destruction might move some to go through the motions of doing Jehovah’s will. Others might be so enthralled with the hope of life in Paradise that they would serve God simply for that reason. Yet, if people driven primarily by such motives thought that Jehovah’s day and the great tribulation were not so near, they might not be inclined to serve God zealously.
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I have a question...
by brunhilda40 ini really need some help and clariety on a situation i am involved in with a friend who is jw.
i am not jw, i am a female lesbian.
i have made a friend threw work who is jw.
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Ingenuous
These are from JW publications: Watchtower, Awake!, and an internal training newsletter, Our Kingdom Ministry
On subjection to husbands:
Watchtower - November 1, 2003 p.18 - Faithful Christian Women—Precious Worshipers of God
The
Beauty of Subjection
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Jehovah created the woman as a complement of the man. (Genesis 2:18) Hence, the wife’s subjection to her husband in no way implies inferiority. Rather, it dignifies a woman, allowing her to use her many gifts and talents in harmony with God’s will. Proverbs chapter 31 describes the broad range of activities of a capable wife in ancient Israel. She helped the needy, planted vineyards, and purchased land. Yes, "in her the heart of her owner . . . put trust, and there [was] no gain lacking."—Verses 11, 16, 20.20
A modest, God-fearing woman does not ambitiously promote herself or compete with her husband. (Proverbs 16:18) She does not pursue self-fulfillment primarily through secular pursuits but uses her God-given gifts mainly to serve others—her family, fellow Christians, neighbors, and above all, Jehovah. ..Watchtower - March 15, 2002 , p.11 par.12 - Is Christ’s Leadership Real to You?
The wife, for her part, is to be in subjection to her husband. However, if she is affected by the spirit of the world, this may begin to undermine her view of the headship principle, and the idea of being in subjection to a man would not appeal to her. The Scriptures do not suggest that the man should be domineering, but they do require that wives be in subjection to their husbands. (Ephesians 5:24) The Bible also holds the husband or father accountable, and when its counsel is applied, this contributes to peace and order in the family.—Philippians 2:5
Watchtower - June 15, 2000, p. - 15 - Honor the Ones Given Authority Over You
Should wives with believing husbands give them any less honor than wives with unbelieving mates give theirs? What if you do not agree with your husband on some matter? Jesus gave some advice that can be applied in a general way here: "If someone under authority impresses you into service for a mile, go with him two miles." (Matthew 5:41) Do you honor your husband by going along with his wishes?
On friendship (a.k.a., "association") with non-JWs:
Watchtower - April 15, 1993, p.15-16 pars.7-9 - Youths—What Are You Pursuing?
Paul thus cautioned Timothy that even among fellow Christians there might have been ‘vessels lacking honor’—individuals who did not conduct themselves aright. Now if association with certain anointed Christians could have been harmful for Timothy, how much more so would association with worldlings be damaging to a Christian youth today! (1 Corinthians 15:33) This does not mean giving your schoolmates the cold shoulder. But you should take care not to get overly involved with them, even if that makes you appear to be a loner at times. This can be very difficult. Says one Brazilian girl: "It is hard. I am always being invited by my schoolmates to go to parties and places that are improper for Christian youths. They say: ‘What! You’re not going? You’re crazy!’"
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Some worldly youths may seem nice simply because they do not smoke, use bad language, or engage in immoral sex. If they are not pursuing righteousness, though, their fleshly thinking and attitudes can easily rub off on you. Besides, how much could you have in common with unbelievers? (2 Corinthians 6:14-16) Why, the spiritual values you hold dear are mere "foolishness" to them! (1 Corinthians 2:14) Could you maintain their friendship without compromising your principles?9
So keep clear of unwholesome associates. Limit your association to spiritually minded Christians who really love Jehovah. Be careful even of youths in the congregation who are negative or critical. As you grow spiritually, your taste in friends will likely change. Says one teenage Witness girl: "I have been making new friends in different congregations. It has made me realize how unnecessary worldly friends are.""Our Kingdom Ministry" - June, 1989, pp. 1,2
One cannot walk with God while running in association with those of the wicked and sick society that approves of everything that God abhors. The Bible warns: "Bad associations spoil useful habits." (1 Cor. 15:33) Some in the congregation may be inclined to invite worldly acquaintances and unbelieving relatives who have no interest in the truth to social gatherings, thinking that this will encourage them to accept the truth. However, is this wise and in harmony with the Scriptures?
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We have been counseled to be cautious in our dealings with men of the nations, unbelievers, and ordinary persons. (See the November 15, 1988, issue of TheWatchtower, pages 15-16.) Why should we have unnecessary social contact with people who still pursue worldly ways and who have not become worshipers of Jehovah? (2 Cor. 6:14, 15) Some who are negligent spiritually may seek out others who also hold on to worldly thinking and ways instead of seeking association with mature Christians who could help them become strong in the faith. They fail to appreciate that attendance at social gatherings with worldly, unprincipled people can weaken their faith and corrupt them.—Compare 2 Thessalonians 3:14, 15. -
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2007 YEAR TEXT: (Zephaniah 1:14) 14 The great day of Jehovah is near.
by What-A-Coincidence inmessage: .
i was just told that the 2007 years text is (zephaniah 1:14) 14 the great day of jehovah is near.
it is near, and there is a hurrying [of it] very much.
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Ingenuous
2006:
(Zephaniah 1:14) 14 “The great day of Jehovah is near. It is near, and there is a hurrying [of it] very much. . . We are living during that appointed time!!! How exciting these last days will prove to be as we see Bible Prophecy being fulfilled! May Jehovah strengthen you and fortify your heart and mind for the work ahead. And may he go ahead of you and prepare the hearts and minds of those to whom we preach!
1914:
We are on the very eve of this great Day of Vengeance. We are now proclaiming in the words of the Prophet Zephaniah, "The great Day of the Lord is near; it is near and hasteth greatly..."...
It will be a lesson never to be forgotten. The sons of God, then exalted to the rulership of the Kingdom, will begin their work of healing and blessing, of binding up the crushed and broken hearts of men. Their own experience in the present life will have taught them how to sympathize with the poor, sin-sick world; and they will be able to pour into humanity's wounds the blessed balm of Gilead, "to give beauty for ashes," to wipe away all tears, and to lead all who will step by step up the grand Highway of Holiness then cast up for the people. - R5537, p. 279 -
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Book study funnies - blood
by Zico inthe book study tonight was all about abstaining from blood.
the usual nonsense which we've all heard before, but i thought i'd share some amusing comments from the completely misinformed and delusional brothers and sisters there tonight.
i wish jwfacts, td or any of the other board blood experts could have been there tonight to hear this, now that would have made a good study!
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Ingenuous
'There have been women who have had blood transfusions from blood donated by a man, and afterwards, they grew body hair.'
LOL! Can you imagine - you're lying on a gurney being told you're about to bleed out and never see your husband, your kids, your friends again, and all you can think is: "I can't take blood, it'll make me grow a beard!"
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Did u want to leave the org bcause u were doing something immoral?
by Will2Power in..and then sought to justify your leaving the organisation/religion by researching websites like this (to salve your conscience, justify continuing in your pleasurable but unscriptural lifestyle), or did you sincerely leave purely because you discovered certain false teachings, scandals, etc, while still living a moral, christian lifestyle?
be honest now, i mean really honest.
(this is not meant to offend anyone but viewed like a survey).
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Ingenuous
Did u want to leave the org bcause u were doing something immoral and then sought to justify your leaving the organisation/religion by researching websites like this (to salve your conscience, justify continuing in your pleasurable but unscriptural lifestyle),
No.
OR did you sincerely leave purely because you discovered certain false teachings, scandals, etc, while still living a moral, Christian lifestyle?
Yes. And I didn't even have to visit "forbidden" sites on the 'net to discover them.
Troll or not, there are probably many readers of this board wondering the same thing. It can only do good to put the truth out there.
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Hardships and Assemblies
by Sunspot ini just left a post on the "pa convention" thread concerning some of the hardships and difficulties that jws had to (or some here still have to?
) endure just to either get to a convention or what they go through after getting to the convention.. having to trot around from designated doors to the restrooms (rather than being ordered to use the door they told you to) no matter where your family was sitting..... or having you and your family have to climb way too many stairs on the last upper tier to find seats.....while plenty of empty seats remained on the ground floor that were never used that whole day?.
or the designated wts-regulation-sized cooler you had to lug into the stadium because you weren't allowed to leave the site to get a snack or a drink?.
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Ingenuous
Also the financial difficulties associated with taking time off work and the travel expenses.
Reading this just made me realize - they expect you to take off of work to go to the assembly, yet scrape together money for a room and supplies to bring your own food. Where are their heads?! [Never mind, I already know the answer to that one.]
The "simplification" of bringing meals didn't simplify the lives of the JWs in the least. Having to pack meals for 3 days for adults and children while staying in a hotel room???
And climbing steps is a big deal when you have a "hidden" disability - like bad knees or ankles, or trouble balancing - but don't "qualify" for handicapped seating.
My family had to stop going to the conventions because of my Dad's back. I remember my parents calling me and my sister into their hotel room to tell us we had to miss the rest of the assembly because of Dad's back and this would be probably be our last one. The mood was so somber, you would have thought someone had died. This was after we started going to my aunt & uncle's assembly because ours was the last to move into a stadium with a roof and we couldn't be outside all day because of allergies and asthma. There was a note in one of the pre-convention letters some time ago that the Society was purposely not setting up "clean rooms" for people who suffered from allergies or chemical sensitivities (a special problem at assemblies, as the "friends" like to bathe in perfume/cologne for such "special" occassions - especially on Sunday.)
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OUTLAW and the carload of JW Ladys
by OUTLAW inthis is a story from when i was away from the board for awhile..... my business partner took everything..there i was in the middle of nowhere,and my internet had just been cut off.
the very next day,2 jw ladys show up on my door step(jehovah does provide!)..lol!
!..one look at these two and i knew they were dubs.
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Ingenuous
LOL @ katiekitten:
Or did they mean the JW calendar goes from 1974 to 1976?
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Words and expressions a JW can't say
by JH inname few words or expressions a normal person can say, but not a jw.. when someone sneezes, you can't say bless ya !.
if you want to surprise a jw, you can't say boo !!!
http://www.prankcallsunlimited.com/pcu/booecho.mp3.
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Ingenuous
- (Oh) My God!
- Good God!
- I don't agree with (the Society/the elders/the man in the group, if you're a sister) about that.
- I was having a normal {gasp!} visit with my folks the other day. We were singing Gnarls Barkley's "Crazy" to my baby nephew while it played in the background. I noticed my sister and Dad suddenly went quiet, and I was the only one singing the line "Ha, ha, ha - bless your soul!" - You can't even say "bless you" if it's in the lyrics!