Posts by mdb

21

Revelation 12:1

by Honesty in

who is this woman?.

rev 12:1-5 a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars on her head.

she was pregnant and cried out in labor and agony to give birth.

mdb

Is the woman Mary, the mother of Jesus (above: a Roman Catholic picture of Mary)?

Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron [Ps 2:9; Rev 2:27; 19:15]. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
Rev 12:1-6

And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ [the saints].
Rev 12:17

64

The other sheep: Looking for an apologist to offer an explanation

by IP_SEC in

a verse constantly plucked from context by witnesses is john 10:16. they use it to prove that there are two classes of christian.. and i have other sheep i have other sheep, which are not of this fold: those also i must bring and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.. the this fold say witnesses are anointed christians and the other sheep are christians with an earthly hope.. read the text carefully and in context, and i challenge anyone to be able to prove that.. in chapter 9 jesus heals a man born blind.

this infuriates the pharisees who then attack the healed man and threaten him with being expelled from the synagogue.

the man will not recant and is thrown out.. jesus finds him and asks him to be his follower.

mdb

Hellrider,

It makes sense that they are all jews, as Jesus did all his teaching in Palestine/Judah. So, the 144K (not a literal number btw) is the first ones, those that saw his works, and followed him.

Are you saying that that those who saw His works, living at the time Jesus was on earth, are the ones that make up the 144000? Those mentioned in Matt 27:55,56 would be a part of that group then, correct? They would have to be since they saw His works and ministered to Him. They followed Jesus and were saved through faith (born again).

And many women who followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to Him, were there looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s sons.
Matt 27:55,56

What about Revelation (Rev 7:1-8)? The 144000 clearly come out of the end times. Look at the order of evens... the sixth seal opened.

Also note the following passage:

These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Rev 14:4,5

As far as I can tell, all those in Matt 27:55,56 are women not men, and being that there are mothers mentioned here (two out of three), neither are they virgins. That's a big problem. Apparently the Watchtower believes that women are included in the 144000. This teaching is not Scriptural. The 144000 are Jewish virgin men redeemed from the earth at the time of the sixth seal being broken.

6

Judgement

by sass_my_frass in

i'd like to know if there's any bible quote supporting the jw practice of judging people now.

i've read a lot of 'judge not lest ye be judged' stuff, and i thought that the one doing the judgment was god, on judgment day, and in the meantime we're just doing our best.

mdb

"Judge" for yourself.

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Matt 7:1-5

“Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”
Lk 6:37,38

Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
Jn 7:24

Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:4 (in context - Rom 14:1-13)

But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”
So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
Rom 14:10-13 (in context - Rom 14:1-13)

For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
1 Cor 5:12,13

If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!
Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?...
1 Cor 6:4-9

Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another?
James 4:11,12

Sometimes, the person (or organization) that judges has an entire forest jammed in their own eye, not just a plank. Scripturally, there is basis for judgement within the church. It's unfortunate that the WTS doesn't have the truth and in reality they're judging outside the church because they aren't God's church. God will be their judge.

29

a look to Isaiah.

by mdb in

thus says the lord [yhwh], the king of israel,.

and his redeemer, the lord [yhwh] of hosts:.

besides me there is no god.. isaiah 44:6. how many persons are speaking in isaiah 44:6?

mdb

Star,

That's the problem, you've been a Witness for 26 years. You've been fed lies for 26 years. It must be a difficult thing to come to terms with and even harder to believe anything after finding out most everything you did believe in isn't true.

References of Jehovah applied to Jesus Christcall on the name of the Lord: Rom 10:9-13; Joel 2:32; Acts 2:21; Rom 10:9-13
everlasting light: Isaiah 60:19,20; Rev 21:23
the glory: Isaiah 6:1-5; 42:8; 48:11; Jn 12:41
voice in the wilderness: Isaiah 40:3; Mk 1:2-4
voice like rushing waters: Ezek 43:2; Rev 1:15

Some other questions to ask yourself...

Bondservants of God or Christ?: Titus 1:1; 2 Pet 1:1
Church of God or Christ?: Gal 1:13; 1 Cor 15:9; Rom 16:16
Gospel of God or Christ?: Rom 1:1,9,16; 15:19; Gal 1:7; 3:8; 1 Thess 2:2,8; 3:1,2; 2 Thess 1:8
Holy Spirit sent by the Father or Jesus?: Jn 14:26; 16:7; 1 Cor 6:19
Kingdom of God or Christ?: Eph 5:5; 1 Thess 2:12
Who is the life?: Deut 30:20; Rom 8:10; Col 3:4
Who raised Jesus from the dead (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)?: Jn 2:19; 10:17,18; Acts 2:32; 3:15; 4:10; 13:30; Rom 1:4; 6:4; Eph 1:19,20; 1 Pet 3:18
Servants of God or Christ?: Rom 1:1,9; Gal 1:10
Throne of God or Christ?: Rev 22:1

Who dwells in us who believe (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)?: Jn 14:17,26; Rom 8:9,11; 1 Cor 3:16; Gal 4:6; Eph 2:22; 3:19; 5:18; 2 Tim 1:14

regarding the Spirit...
Sent by the Father or Jesus?: Jn 14:26; 16:7; 1 Cor 6:19
Spirit of God: Rom 8:9,14; 1 Cor 3:16; 12:3; 1 Thess 4:8
Spirit of Jesus Christ: Rom 8:9,10; Phil 1:19
Spirit of truth: Jn 14:17; 15:26; 16:13; 1 Jn 2:27; 4:2; 5:6
Spirit is Lord: 2 Cor 3:17

7

Participating in the New Covenant

by sinis in

just wanted to get some thoughts on this.

i decided in my heart that i should partake if i want to have my sins forgiven.

i believe that the jw's are condemning there own people by forbiding them do partake as they cannot benefit from christs provision if they don't.

mdb

sinis,

Salvation is a free gift and by faith in Jesus Christ. Partaking in communion will not save you. All our best efforts are like filthy rags. Communion is something we partake of to remember what Christ did for us - that His body was broken and His blood poured out in order to bring many sons to glory. Rom 3:20; Gal 2:16; Eph 2:8,9; Titus 3:5

If the WTS teaches that the partaking of the "New Covenant" as a requirement, I suppose it shouldn't surprise anyone being that their idea of salvation is based on works: they believe the atonement Jesus gave on the cross (oh, I mean stake... for you who think that) only covered the sins inherited from Adam. By accepting Christ’s “free gift”, the Watchtower says, now a person has a chance of salvation, but is not saved by faith in Jesus Christ alone. That's far from the teachings of the Scriptures.

We are to believe in the Lord Jesus for salvation: Jn 3:15; 5:24; 11:25; 12:46; 20:31

And, everyone can be born again, not just some "anointed 144000 class": 1 Jn 5:1. This is consistent with Jn 3:1-21; 3:16 (whoever believes); 1:12,13.

7

Participating in the New Covenant

by sinis in

just wanted to get some thoughts on this.

i decided in my heart that i should partake if i want to have my sins forgiven.

i believe that the jw's are condemning there own people by forbiding them do partake as they cannot benefit from christs provision if they don't.

mdb

What do you mean by "participating in the New Covenant"? Sorry, it's just not clear to me as to what you're asking. Do you mean the partaking of the cup and bread (communion)?

2

New Light or New Wave?

by Woodsman in

in order that we should no longer be babes ,tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching by means of trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error.

nwt

after relating how christ gave gifts in men who would build up the body of christ until we all attain to the oneness in faith and accurate knowledge paul describes what these gifts would keep us from becoming.

mdb

...carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching by means of trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error

Just what the Watchtower and their perverted NWT has done to many through deceptive trickery... the "windy teachings" of the WTS. It's unfortunate that they don't see that truth.

37

Jesus' Human Body

by UnDisfellowshipped in

have you noticed that when jesus christ, the son of god, the lord of lords, said something in the bible that the watchtower society disagrees with, the society will either (1) ignore it almost completely or (2) talk about that scripture, but then, they will twist it around to mean the exact opposite of what he plainly said?.

a good example of this is the insight book (volume 2), page 1,083 ("temple"):on one occasion, when the jews demanded a sign from jesus, he replied: "break down this temple, and in three days i will raise it up.

" the jews thought he was speaking of the temple building, but the apostle john explains: "he was talking about the temple of his body.

mdb

Heathen,

The Watchtower says this parable about Abraham's Bosom is entirely symbolic & doesn’t indicate conscious existence after death and their interpretation is to attempt to prove their doctrine of soul-sleep. They say the parable resembles the following:

Rich man: Jewish religious leaders (Pharisees).
Lazarus: Jewish followers of Jesus – people despised by Pharisees & repented to follow Jesus.
Abraham: Jehovah-God.
The death of each of these people: change of conditions for each group while here on earth. Those once despised now into a position of divine favor; those once favored now rejected by Jehovah-God & became “tormented” by proclamations delivered by those they had despised (the apostles).

If people become non-existent at death, what is the point of Luke 16:22-28? Was Jesus teaching something based entirely on a falsehood? When Jesus taught using parables or stories, He always used real-life situations. Luke 16 portrays a real-life situation and life after death.

The Scriptures go against the WTS teaching of soul-sleep. Look at 2 Cor 5:6-8. The phrases (in the Greek text) “at home in the body” and “absent from the Lord”, are both present tense. The moment a Christian dies, he is immediately in the presence of Christ. The Greek word pros (with) in the phrase “be at home with the Lord” suggests a very close (face-to-face) fellowship or intimate relationship. Man does possesses an immaterial nature that consciously survives physical death, despite what the Watchtower teaches.

37

Jesus' Human Body

by UnDisfellowshipped in

have you noticed that when jesus christ, the son of god, the lord of lords, said something in the bible that the watchtower society disagrees with, the society will either (1) ignore it almost completely or (2) talk about that scripture, but then, they will twist it around to mean the exact opposite of what he plainly said?.

a good example of this is the insight book (volume 2), page 1,083 ("temple"):on one occasion, when the jews demanded a sign from jesus, he replied: "break down this temple, and in three days i will raise it up.

" the jews thought he was speaking of the temple building, but the apostle john explains: "he was talking about the temple of his body.

mdb

Jesus was resurrected in the flesh as the Scriptures say. Maybe these references have already been posted, but I don't have time to read every posting here. I didn't see them in the posts I did read and even if they are repeated, they're just as good the second time.

Ps 16:8-11; Matt 28:9; Luke 24:30,37-43; Jn 2:19-21; 20:17,27; 21:12,13; Acts 1:4; 2:25-32; 13:29-37; 1 Tim 2:5; 1 Pet 3:18

18

What does "born again" mean?

by Country Girl in

to most of the people on here, the term "born again" reminds them of fanatical christians who try to impose their beliefs on all other people, have an agenda (which is sometimes co-mixed with politics), and want to convert the rest of the world.

to me, born again is of a different nature.

it's different from my understanding of it as a jehovah's witness, and it's different from my understanding of it as a baptist.

mdb

Country Girl,

but we have to define what for us, is CHRISTIANITY, and stick to that.

Jesus Christ has already defined that for us and as the example, walked in the way we should go. To state that being a Christian (or living the faith) is different for each by the way they define it for themselves somewhat parallels with saying, "what's good for you may not be good for me" or, "the truth is determined by what I feel it is" when in fact, no matter what a person believes the truth is or what we believe it means to be a Christian, the truth remains the same and has been determined by God.

Being "born again" (a Christian - a follower of Christ Jesus) is believing in Him, repenting of your sins (heart change, a complete turning), taking up your cross and following Him. Jesus promised to send His Spirit, the Helper; that God would dwell in us. That is a spiritual re-birth, being born again that we should live by the Spirit and be dead to our flesh. Put off the old and put on the new. The Scriptures say that a man's faith is proved what he does. Not that out faith is by works, but true faith will be evident by the life change brought by the Spirit who dwells in us and works in us to produce good fruit. If you love the Lord and are His child, your everyday living will reflect that and bring honor to Him as the love of Christ pours out of you like living water to those you have contact with each day.