Posts by West70

49

Do Some JW Elders Secretly Consider It Possible That They Are Wrong?

by West70 in

i recently heard this "experience" from a now "christian" former jw, which has not previously been publicly communicated.

this jw then moved back to their home area (no jw relatives), and simply continued living their already-in-progress non-jw life.

inevitably, this exjw christian started bumping into their jw former associates.

West70

I recently heard this "experience" from a now "Christian" former JW, which has not previously been publicly communicated.

A JW moved away from their "home" area for several years - "faded", and eventually found Jesus Christ, and became a "true Christian".

This JW then moved back to their home area (no JW relatives), and simply continued living their already-in-progress non-JW life.

Inevitably, this exJW Christian started bumping into their JW former associates. Over a period of a couple years, the exJW spoke with the JWs about a half dozen times or so without ever confessing Jesus Christ to the JWs - admittedly out of "fear of man". The JWs were allowed to assume that the exJW was merely "weak" and "inactive".

Eventually, one of the local JWs was employed at the exJW's workplace. At first, the exJW allowed the JW to think the exJW was merely "inactive". Since other co-workers were aware the exJW was a "Christian", it was probably one of them that tipped off the JW that exJW was no longer a JW Believer.

This is assumed, because one night the exJW receives a telephone call. It is a JW Elder the exJW formerly knew (and as I told exJW - probably another Elder secretly and illegally easedropping).

After exchanging the routine Elder-LostSheep "pleasantries", the JW Elder gets down to the REAL REASON for the telephone call. He tells exJW that there are "rumors" circulating that exJW is attending a local church.

ExJW comes clean, and acknowledges their "christianity" - including answering the Elder's routine question that "NO" they do NOT believe that the Governing Body is Jehovah's only FDS.

ExJW even politely offers to write a Letter of Disassociation, so that the Elders are not required to DF them.

JW Elder states that a Letter would not be necessary (reason I suspect one or more other Elders were illegally easedropping), and that there would be a DA announcement made to the Cong.

ExJW was upset by the whole conversation, but at the same time was relieved to get this mess behind them.

At work, the JW co-worker continued the measured "shunning", wich had already started prior to the telephone call.

ExJW assumed the DA was announced and official. However, over a period of months, exJW would bump into various JWs, and occasionally one would speak or even carry on a short conversation.

ExJW simply assumed the JWs had either not heard they had DAed, or were JWs who did not carry out "shunning" to the extreme. However, over time even the JW co-worker loosened up on their shunning, and even made some stray remarks which led the exJW to wonder if their DA had been announced.

ExJW started gradually doing some measured "inquiring", and eventually discovered that the JW Elder who had telephoned and interrogated them had DIED sometime right after their telephone conversation.

Due to the obvious circumstances, exJW doesn't know exactly when JW Elder died, nor for a fact that their DA was never announced, but the sometimes friendliness of some local JWs would seem to indicate no DA Announcement.

As I have already indicated, and as I have told exJW, I'm almost positive that there was one or more other Elders easedropping on the telephone call so as to act as a "second witness", otherwise the JW Elder would have taken exJW up on their offer to write the Letter of Disassociation.

Does anyone else suspect that slimely JW Elder DIED that very night, and that such "scared the HELL" out of the other Elders, who then decided they would just drop the matter against exJW Christian rather than make the DA Announcement?

Or, did the BOE consult with the CO, and were they afraid regular Cong members would discover the weird circumstances, and that possibly some of the Cong members would "make the connection" between JW Elders DEATH and his actions toward exJW Christian?

45

I beg your pardon, but your breast is in my eye!!!

by Scully in

ok, so i'm at the dentist this afternoon - nothing major, just something i've been putting off for a while - and the dental assistant is doing her thing with my teeth - my mouth is wired open (i think i was able to tune into radio transmissions for a while) - and i've got my eyes closed, my glasses off, trying to relax in the chair, while listening to the piped in muzak.. suddenly, i can tell she's really getting into her work - she's leaning against my face and getting quite vigorous about whatever she's doing to my tooth.

then it dawned on me.... ummm... hello.... your breast is in my eye!!!

except my mouth is frozen and wired so that all that's coming out is unintelligible garble... and drool (from being wired open, not because it's the least bit "interesting").. so i'm thinking to myself, if i push her away from my face, she looks the type that would clock me for sexually harassing her... if i say anything to her about it, she'll be embarrassed and might screw up my tooth... if i wait a couple more minutes, she'll be done and i might have an interesting story to share with mr scully... finally, it occurs to me that they said i could give them a signal to stop what they are doing.

West70

GEEEEEEEZ, what happened to the day when the raised issues would not even be issues.

When I was in college over 2 decades ago, I helped pay the bills by working in the school's alumni office. My supervisor was a slightly overweight mid-20s female who had the misfortune of having to pack around 44DDs.

That young lady was one of nicest and sweetest people whom I have ever known in my life. She was so innocent that she had never even had a boyfriend up to that point in her life. Whenever a stray sexual remark was inadvertently made in her presence, she would turn beet red.

However, she had the habit of walking up to you while you were working at your desk and leaning over one of your shoulders, which generally meant one of those "monsters" ended up in your ear, eye, or merely resting on your shoulder.
At some point in time, every student in the office - male and female - eventually told her good naturedly to get her (---various terms----) out of their eye, ear, etc.

She thought it was hilarious, and we all did too. Both she and us laughed this off numerous times, and noone EVER thought anything "sexual" of it.

I'm glad I am as old as I am, and that I won't have to live much longer in a society where every innocent move and person is looked at as a potential criminal.

34

Kingdom Hall Accounts Report

by Honesty in

why doesn't the watchtower society allow accounts servants to make copies of the accounts report and pass them out to all attendees at the kingdom hall so they can follow along as he reads the report?

that way all the dubs could more fully share in the joy that comes out of giving from the heart?.

at the church i attend we have a quarterly business meeting where every one receives a complete financial statement that has been audited by several committees in order to insure that every penny is accounted for.

West70

Honesty:

Thanks for replying. I may not relate my own "parking lot" incident-gone-wrong, but your last story reminded me of another one that I didn't even recall the other day.

I once attended a SAD (probably, but maybe CA - I really don't recall) outside my own circuit, and since that Circuit was economically depressed, and knowing that the Elders frequently were made to make up the shortfall in SAD/CA donations to pay for the facility rental, I dropped a check in a contribution box first thing Saturday morning, along with a note containing my address for the tax receipt.

Well, instead of taking my donation as it was meant - to relieve the locals of the burden of paying for the facility rental - the DO "suggested" to the Elders that since the donation came from someone outside their circuit that it would be only proper for the circuit to donate my donation to Brooklyn - that it was the duty of the locals to pay their own SAD expenses.

This incident happened about a year or two before the "stage furniture" donation to a "strange" KH was appropriated by the BOE to payoff one of the elders.

I also know that I got screwed over for a third time when making a "parking lot" donation to a KH to which I did not belong.

I also made several other donations to other KHs to which I visted only once or even not at all. Now, I wonder if those donations were used by those KHs for my "designated purpose", or whether one or more of those donations were intervened by the CO, who also forced those Congs to forward the money to Brooklyn.

I can sincerely say to the people in Brooklyn that I hope they CHOKE on the money they hypocritically STOLE from not just me, but the local JWs who I had intended to help.

When I call the JWs in Brooklyn:

THEIVES

-- I can PROVE IT !!!

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

West70

"prow(l)ing of the same ground"

OR

"plowing of the same ground"

34

Kingdom Hall Accounts Report

by Honesty in

why doesn't the watchtower society allow accounts servants to make copies of the accounts report and pass them out to all attendees at the kingdom hall so they can follow along as he reads the report?

that way all the dubs could more fully share in the joy that comes out of giving from the heart?.

at the church i attend we have a quarterly business meeting where every one receives a complete financial statement that has been audited by several committees in order to insure that every penny is accounted for.

West70

Honesty:

I would be interested in hearing more about the "sister" who donated $$$ for paving a KH parking lot and the implied "irregularities", since I myself have paid for the paving of more than one KH parking lot, and there were also some "funny" goings on with at least one of those parking lots.

Also, I will relate one instance of visiting a Congregation on a Sunday, and being told of their "need" for funds to purchase certain new stage furniture. Well, after getting home, I sat down and mailed that Congregation a check for $1000.00, which would pay for what I had been told that they wanted. I received the standard tax receipt, but heard no more from them. I've forgotten exactly how long it was, but roughly 6-8 months later, I again visited this Congregation, with the obvious expectation of seeing the "new stage furniture" which I had paid for.

Well, when I enter the KH, I notice two things. First, NO new stage furniture, and Second, the Elders are avoiding greeting me.

After the meeting, I finally am able to corner one of the Elders, but I wait for him to raise the issue. He doesn't. Then, the same from a second Elder. Finally, I raise the issue myself, and receive a quick reply that is nonsensical.

My memory is lapsing at this point, but I believe that I dropped it at that point, since it was "obvious" that something was WRONG.

I believe that I went home and then telephoned back one of the Elders, since I knew that most JW Elders have an easier time explaining "stuff" if they don't have to do it "face-to-face".

Sure enough, "stuff" happened.

Although my $1000.00 check included a letter explaining that the donation was specifically for the congregation to buy their "needed" stage furniture, the BOE decided "they" INSTEAD would "use" my $1000.00 to pay off an old $1000. loan made to the KH by ...... GUESS WHO???

One of the BOE.

I was upset, and I demanded to know which Elder of the BOE ended up with the $1000.

The Elder who I telephoned refused to tell me, and although I had otherwise approached this in true "theocratic form" (never claiming any "ownership in the $1000, or "glory" for making the donation) he boldly proclaimed that the $1000.00 was "Jehovah's Money", and as His "representatives" the BOE had every right to use the money as they saw fit - irregardless of my "designated purpose".

At the time, I was a confirmed "koolaid drinker", so I tucked tail and went on with my JW life. However, I got my money's worth, since this served as just one more straw that eventually broke the back of the proverbial camel.

If Honesty replies to my parking lot Q, I will relate another "good one".

Otherwise, folks here should understand that this was "days gone by", and now I have my hands full paying a parking fee, much less paying for the paving of a parking lot.

30

RACISM Behind 1909 Watch Tower Magazine Name Change

by West70 in

from 1879 through 1908, the magazine owned, operated, and edited by charles taze russell (not the zion's watch tower tract society) was offically named "zion's watch tower and herald of christ's presence".

with several changes caused by the move from pittsburgh to brooklyn to escape maria russell, her lawyers, and the pennsylvania courts, it was decided that the official name of the magazine be changed to "the watch tower and herald of christ's presence".

here are the official reasons for dropping the word "zion's", as stated in the december 15, 1908 issue: .

West70

I will assume that by now - those who are interested in such things- have seen my "other posting" that at the time that Charles Taze Russell started his own "Watch Tower" magazine in July 1879 there already was another religious monthly named "The Watch Tower" magazine, which had been published for nearly a decade.

Interestingly, its' publisher was also a student of GEORGE STORRS.

Does anyone seriously believe that CTR was not familiar with such when he decided to pliagerize the name?

8

JEHOVAH and JESUS Arrested In Texas

by West70 in

i am assuming that in all likelihood that the 16 year old was named "jesus": .

authorities arrest two odessans on possession of marijuana charge .

by jay gorania .

West70

The odds are probably fairly high that Jehovah's and Jesus's parents are named Jose and Maria Hernandez.

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

West70

Uh, I was referring to the time period of late 1800s until just recently when I started releasing CONLEY's Bio in bits and pieces - here and there.

By the way, others have figured out my sources, and have been sending it out on their email lists, so it isn't like I'm still hiding anything.

I figure that the longer some sources stay unpublicized, the greater the likelihood that other researchers may find other sources and other info. I'm trying to prevent the "prowing of the same ground".

After all, other than those who HAD a vested interest in keeping CONLEY's info secret so as to not have it affect the image of their beloved FDS -- Charles Taze Russell, the rest of us are on the SAME TEAM -- altho it's hard to tell that most of the time.

Some of you might be interested in who some of my best "customers" are -- the same folks who tell YOU not to ...

I simply sit back and enjoy the hypocrisy -- and watch some exJWs be as big of ... as they were when they were JWs.

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

West70

I'm still waiting for some of the many RUSSELLITES who haunt this DB (who anxiously await to take cheap shots at Rutherford and the post-Russell WTS) to EXPLAIN why their own Russellite predecessors participated in the CONSPIRACY to erase William Henry Conley from WTS history?

In the meantime, others might be interested in knowing that CONLEY's post-WTS ministry activities is mentioned in one Book which went through numerous re-printings throughout most of the 20th century, and amazingly, CONLEY is even mentioned in another book which was only recently published.

I suspect that if I had more $$$ to spend to blindly purchase even more books to browse, I could find even more books which mention CONLEY.

How could have William Henry Conley's biography have stayed a secret from JW researchers for so long?

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

West70

.