Posts by ChristianObserver

33

Ethics Discussion of WTS Blood Policy

by Marvin Shilmer in

ethics panel discusses blood policy of watchtower bible & tract society and jehovah's witnesses refusing lifesaving treatment .

the oncologist journal of august 2002 contains an interesting discussion between a panel of medical professionals on the subject of jehovah's witnesses refusing blood therapies.. this article focuses on a witness woman who refused some blood therapies but was convinced by her congregation elders that it was okay to accept bovine hemoglobin therapy.

realizing the glaring inconsistency of bovine hemoglobin being acceptable in the face of prohibiting other blood therapies like red cell infusion, one physician said,.

ChristianObserver

Hello :o)

I was sent that article yesterday and was again struck by the authorisation of bovine haemoglobin by the HLC.

How can the WTBTS allow the use of bovine haemoglobin, whilst to all intents and purposes, refusing to allow human haemoglobin?

To an outsider this would imply that the WTBTS is more concerned about the *safety* of the human blood supply/their historic position, than what they hold to be a Biblical command to abstain from blood.

*Abstain from blood* except for all the *conscience fractions* and bovine haemoglobin.................

Hmmmmm!

36

Marrying a cousin

by A_Revelation in

i was wondering if this is seen as wrong in the eyes of jehovah and wether it would produce unusual children.

i was just interested.

also wether it is legal in britian (where i live).

ChristianObserver

Hello Mark :o)

Okay - from a UK perspective :o)

The marriage of first cousins is not allowed in the Roman Catholic Church - that relationship is viewed as within what is termed the *forbidden degrees* I believe.

Apart from in the Roman Catholic Church, it is not forbidden within the UK as far as I am aware - my grandparents were first cousins and my great grandmothers were sisters.

Thinking about children resulting from such a marriage, certain characteristics (good and bad) can be reinforced in such close blood relationships (eg the Habsburg's chin, haemophilia and other health related problems etc). The advantage of prohibiting marriage within the forbidden degrees is that you widen the gene pool and avoid the risks associated with in-breeding.

*Unusual children*? That's why I don't have a pic next to my name ;o)

It all depends on the composition of the gene pool on which you are both drawing.

7

Watchtower or AOL???

by FrankRaven in

jw
friends

.

greetings:

it is my considered opinion that aol is worried about the watchtower bible and tract society.why do i make this statement?consider these facts....i was,until 8/8/2002,am a member of aol and aol has a messege discussion board on the watchtower.and since last year,i've been writing factual documents on the watchtower and within 24 to 48 hours that post i put in are gone.i've complained a few times to the room moniter and they say they didn't do it.since they are the only ones that can,they are my prime suspects.but i let it slide.. so when i do complain about abusive language,in which the moniters tell me if there is such an act to tell them,they refuse to do anything.then i hear from other aol members that tell me that their posts are gone,just as fast.. now i know that there are those who abusive the room and use bad language and abusive other members,because we are not watchtower followers,i know it's just par for the course.. at times,people lie,but numbers don't lie.out of,lets say,i put up 30 subject posts in a given year,and only about 6 go through for a week.other people's post are up more then a month.now that's strange.. it seems to me,my opinion,equal time doesn't count to aol.especially the main topic is watchtower society.. it's this writer's opinion that the watchtower has a hold of some kind on aol.

ChristianObserver

Hello Frank :o)

How do you access this board you've mentioned ? Thanks!

38

IF BETHEL MONITORS this board what are they saying

by minimus in

jw
friends

it's been said many times that bethel monitors this board.

if they do, what do you think they're thinking?

do you think this board could cause a staunch bethelite to question things?

ChristianObserver

Hello Frank :o)

You mentioned an AOL board on the Watchtower. Is that an AOL members only board and how would AOL members access that board? I'd be very interested to know :o)

Thanks!

32

why do people think jesus died on a cross?

by watermelon in

i have always wonderd why so many people think jesus died on a cross.

ive been brought up to beleive that he died on a stake.

where did it come from about the cross?

ChristianObserver

Erm..... because historically this is the most likely scenario, upheld by tradition :o)

The reference to Moses and his outstretched arms is of obvious significance as is the apparent traditional preparation of the Passover lamb with one vertical skewer and then one horizontal skewer across the upper shoulders.

Moreover, Roman prisoners were often bound to a *furca* - a wooden beam across the shoulders - with arms stretched outwards and sometimes forwards, depending on the shape of the wooden apparatus used - rather different from the general *hands tied behind the back* representation that is often shown in films.

The use of *xylon* is also significant both in the New Testament and in the Septuagint. It does not only mean *tree*, though obviously the use of tree imagery throughout the Bible is significant, it is used for stocks when Paul was imprisoned (Acts 16) and for gallows in the Septuagint. The Romans had permanent sites of execution and trees or uprights were already in place.

When considering the weight/length of a timber which would be required to be sunk in the ground sufficiently far down and firmly to take a grown man without any other supports - and if this was the timber which was to be carried to the site of execution as well, through crowded streets, after a severe flogging, by the victim - in the absence of any other evidence, the sheer logistics would militate against the upright being the timber carried.

4

Invisible return of Christ - ???

by ChristianObserver in

i have heard this mentioned before, but wondered if anyone could enlighten me about this - please?.

what exactly do jehovah's witnesses believe about the return of christ - do they believe that it was an invisible return and if so, when - and has this belief changed at all?.

any links to relevant publications and quotes would be much appreciated - or links to where this has been discussed previously :o).

ChristianObserver

Hello :o)

I have heard this mentioned before, but wondered if anyone could enlighten me about this - please?

What exactly do Jehovah's Witnesses believe about the return of Christ - do they believe that it was an invisible return and if so, when - and has this belief changed at all?

Any links to relevant publications and quotes would be much appreciated - or links to where this has been discussed previously :o)

Thanks from one who is confused at present :o)

2

Child Abuse - programme on in UK now

by ChristianObserver in

.

anyone in the uk - channel 2 now - our little secret about child abuse.

sounds as though it is going to be horrific though :'o(

ChristianObserver

Hello :o)

This isn't a Jehovah's Witness related programme. It's about the effect of child abuse on 3 generations of one family.

It is keeping the subject of child abuse firmly in the spotlight over here though!

2

Child Abuse - programme on in UK now

by ChristianObserver in

.

anyone in the uk - channel 2 now - our little secret about child abuse.

sounds as though it is going to be horrific though :'o(

ChristianObserver

Hello!

Anyone in the UK - channel 2 now - Our Little Secret about child abuse. Sounds as though it is going to be horrific though :'o(

24

Organization non-members ARE approved by God

by YoursChelbie in

does the bible contain accounts of persons who, while not active members of "organized" religion have god's appoval?

if it does, this would contradict watchtower teaching, since they often claim that anyone who's not a baptized member of their organization will suffer destruction.

further they claim that only active members of their "organization" have god's approval.

ChristianObserver

Hello Chelbie :o)

>>Leaving the Watchtower doesn't mean a person is not close to God.

I agree :o) Only leaving God means that a person is not close to God, though the parable of the prodigal son would indicate that God would remain close to them waiting for their return and (metaphorically) rushing to meet them with outstretched arms and would not shun them.

Leaving the WTBTS means that a person is no longer close to the organisation, but does the organisation remain close to them? From what I have read the person leaving would be labelled an apostate and shunned. Two very different scenarios.

GRITS - I was very interested in your comment about not looking up the root words! Is there anything in the literature about that yet do you know as I'd be interested. Thanks :o)

24

Organization non-members ARE approved by God

by YoursChelbie in

does the bible contain accounts of persons who, while not active members of "organized" religion have god's appoval?

if it does, this would contradict watchtower teaching, since they often claim that anyone who's not a baptized member of their organization will suffer destruction.

further they claim that only active members of their "organization" have god's approval.

ChristianObserver

Hello YouKnow :o)

>>In fact he said that anyone who gave his brothers a cup of water on the basis of the fact that they recognized them as Christ's representatives would not lose their reward. That definitely proves that Jesus also operates through an organized association of his followers.

I think that He was using the singular in those passages and speaking about each individual:

Mark 9 v 37: Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.

Luke 9 v 48: And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

Matt 10 v 42: And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold [water] only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

Matt 25 v 40: And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.

>>That definitely proves that Jesus also operates through an organized association of his followers.

I think that if we consider that Jesus works through an organised association of his followers, then that organised association of His followers would be known as *the body of Christ*. And members of the body of Christ do not necessarily all have the same function. Some are gifted in teaching, some in preaching, some in caring, some in listening, some in healing, some in visiting the needy, some are able to give financial support etc etc. We all have a part to play - but we are not necessarily all able to do exactly the same thing with equal success - but we are all necessary :o)

>>The proof is that Jehovah's Witnesses are doing the work that Christ commanded Christians to do, namely to go to people of all the nations teaching them about God and Christ and teaching them to observe Christ's commands.

So in that case, the fact that the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church, the Baptists, Methodists, United Reformed, Pentecostalists etc etc are heavily involved in missionary activities, going to all the nations teaching them about God and Christ and teaching them to observe Christ's commands would also be proof that their respective churches are doing the work that Christ commanded. Many of these *missions* also involve feeding the poor, tending the sick etc.

A few examples for Musky :o) A friend of mine is a Doctor and his wife a teacher so their mission has been tri-fold. Today I was speaking to an engineer who will be going out as a missionary using his professional skills on building/clean water projects as well as preaching. Off the top of my head the following are christian charities which involve mission - Christian Aid, Oxfam, Save the Children Fund, Caritas, CAFOD, Leprosy Mission, Tearfund, Harvest for the Hungry, Operation Christmas Child, Mission Aviation Fellowship, Church Missionary Society etc

The following are some examples of christian witnessing across the denominations in our area: we run christian based holiday clubs for the children; run Mum and Toddler groups; have a drop in centre for young mothers; have a christian GP practice; run Alpha courses; run clubs for the elderly; run a disabled riding centre; have contact and involvement with playgroups and schools; sponsor various youth projects; sponsor groups which go into senior schools to take services, hold discussions etc; have a number of christian schools which are seriously oversubscribed; periodically hold inter-denominational events such as open air services; run Good News courses in homes; make baptismal visits and hold pre-marriage sessions; run after school clubs for children; organise prison visiting; supply volunteers for various charity shops and the hospice; supply volunteer helpers for Harvest for the Hungry and Operation Christmas Child; internet witnessing ;o)

I'm of the view that often actions speak louder than words and that God uses individuals - irrespective of their *label* of membership :o)

For Lieu :o) I agree with you that the implement of Christ's death is of minor importance. It is His death and resurrection which are the important parts :o) Couldn't resist the *impale* gauntlet though ;o)