Posts by ChristianObserver

4

Hemopure = blood

by undercover in

if it's made from blood, then it has blood particles in it.

if you're gonna adhere to some bible law that says no blood, shouldn't anything that contains blood parts be included?

but now it's okay to use hemopure or other particles of blood.

It would appear that if you call the new products *fake blood*/*oxygen therapeutics*/*blood substitutes* or something which *distances* them from blood, those posting to the thread for which you provided a link appear to conveniently overlook the fact that haemoglobin is contained in blood and that haemoglobin forms the basis for the new products currently undergoing tests. It would appear that these people are totally ignorant about the constitution of blood.

I read somewhere that Jehovah's Witness patients are usually willing to take any blood treatment/product which appears on the *acceptable* list of the WTBTS. One report I read also stated that a Jehovah's Witness was confused when she was allowed to use one of the new products and commented 'Apparently it is not blood'.

So, there you have it! Human blood transfusion is not allowed because there is a divine command to *abstain from blood*. HOWEVER....... you can take purified bovine haemoglobin because *apparently it is not blood* and therefore does not contravene the divine command.

Presumably, following WTBTS's statements, a Jehovah's Witness could in all conscience, have a transfusion of every fraction of blood minus one fraction, and it would not be *blood*.

* Such therapies are not transfusions of those primary components; they usually involve parts or fractions thereof. Should Christians accept these fractions in medical treatment? We cannot say. The Bible does not give details, so a Christian must make his own conscientious decision before God.*

Watchtower - June 15th, 2000

213

Governing Body Summoned For Jud Hearing

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

service committee .

25 columbia heights

brooklyn, ny 11201 .

ChristianObserver

Hello :o)

May I offer a couple of thoughts on Bill's letter, as an *observer*?

"it has been requested that I notify you of the following."

This is 3rd person reporting - Bill has been requested by another/others.

"The committee wishes to invite"

So Silentlambs has a committee... ?

If so, there may be those on the Committee who are elders/Jehovah's Witnesses in good standing/victims of abuse.

I suspect that this letter was written as a result of the WTBTS's press release handed out to the media on the day of the march. Re-reading that press release opening:

"We respect a person's right to free expression. In fact, as Jehovah's Witnesses, we live by that principle every day of our lives."

The press release then sets out the WTBTS procedure which it states that it follows:

"If an accusation of child molestation is made against a member of a congregation, the elders immediately work to assure the safety of the victim and of other children. Also, they make every effort to comply with the law. This includes complying with laws that mandate reporting the incident to the proper authorities. This is done even when a child is the only one to report the wrong conduct or when the elders received the allegation of molestation in confidence."

To my mind, the Committee is calling in the WTBTS's cards on this one - i.e. prove that you follow the procedure which you have just handed to the press.

The Silentlambs' letter continues:

" The committee wishes to invite any elder currently serving who would like to assist on this judicial hearing to contact William H. Bowen to confirm your attendance."

And this appears to be a request to any current serving elder to make a stand.

Just my two penn'orth!

43

For Those Who Pray. My dad is very sick

by DJ in

jw
friends

my dad is in very bad shape.

he has cns lymphoma.

he is sliding backwards rapidly.

ChristianObserver

So sorry to hear this sad news about your Dad DJ - but so glad that he stood by you when you needed him.

You, your Dad and your family are in my thoughts and prayers..

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{to you all}}}}}}}}}}}}}

19

OBEY THE WATCHTOWER ORGANIZATION OR DIE!

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

page 103:.

page 64:.

page 106:.

ChristianObserver

Hello UnDisfellowshipped :o)

Many of your posts contain a considerable amount of information collected from various sources and I wondered whether you had a website with it all on?

20

MUST CLERGY REPORT ABUSE IN YOUR STATE?

by outnfree in

jw
friends

in another thread, dungbeetle had the great idea that we should become activists at least in our own states (if not in all the states which do not require reporting) for mandatory clergy child abuse reporting.. watchtower has said that the elders will be ordered to report abuse in a clergy-mandated-reporting state.

so why don't we do this...someone put up a list of all the remaining states that do not have this rule, and we start working on the legislators of those states to implement this rule or some version of it, and to close the loopholes and strengthen any existing rules.

it will solve one problem that i can see.

ChristianObserver

Hello :o)

I'm looking into the UK position on reporting and have calls in to the NSPCC and ChildLine, two charities which work lobbying government for improved child protection.

For anyone in the UK who would also like to follow this up the tel nos. are:

NSPCC - Policy helpline - 0207 825 2775

ChildLine - Policy section - 0207 239 1000

There is a tube strike in London today, so phones are not as yet being answered (I've left a message), but I'll post any information I discover.

If mandatory reporting by all who suspect child abuse could be made a legal requirement then this would be a huge step towards the protection of ALL children.

Anyone in the UK willing to join a working party to forward this aim over here? Thinking out loud - drafting a letter to send to the Prime Minister, MPs and Ministers in order to draw attention to the best practices of those States with mandatory reporting and urging them to follow suit......? Child abuse is in the public eye in the UK following the harrowing BBC documentary series, Panorama and another documentary of abuse within one family. Now is a good time to attempt this imo.

33

Welcome Lawrence !

by Simon in

jw
friends

good to see you online bud .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=37734&page=2&site=3#511186.

wish it was in happier circumstances

ChristianObserver

Welcome Lawrence :o)

I cannot begin to imagine what you have been through!

I know that you will find caring support from the people here.

I hope and pray that you will find peace :)

84

WT PR Statement - silentlambs march

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

this was read and given to all media at the march.

the outrage is to great to express, who are these people?

silentlambs .

ChristianObserver

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????? What the Dickens?????

I was stunned when I read the statement Bill, and realise that many outsiders will just read it superficially without the *benefit* of WTBTS doublespeak.

However, reading their statement more critically, you can begin to find areas where what they have publicly stated may come back and *shoot them in the foot* - for want of a more appropriatre phrase ;o)

I trust that that statement will be sent to every elder with the paragraph, quoted below, highlighted and an admonition to go through all files and ensure that there are no outstanding unreported accusations in accordance with the final sentence of the paragraph and that all elders have *worked immediately to assure the safety of the victim and of other children*. In fact, HQ should at this moment be going through their files and questioning the treatment of each of the cases held on file there to ensure compliance with the law in mandatory reporting states. There is no mention in this paragraph of a requirement for 2 WITNESSES.

If an accusation of child molestation is made against a member of a congregation, the elders immediately work to assure the safety of the victim and of other children. Also, they make every effort to comply with the law. This includes complying with laws that mandate reporting the incident to the proper authorities. This is done even when a child is the only one to report the wrong conduct or when the elders received the allegation of molestation in confidence.

Am I misreading this - or have they publicly abandoned the two witness rule in mandatory reporting states?

If they have, Bill, this would be quite a step forward and then Jehovah's Witnesses could legitimately express, in accordance with the opening sentences in this statement, their desire for all abuse allegations to be mandatorily reported in order to afford ALL Jehovah's Witnesses the same rights.

We respect a person's right to free expression. In fact, as Jehovah's Witnesses, we live by that principle every day of our lives.

Something makes me feel that the WTBTS could come to rue the day that they made this statement - and even more so if recent allegations were ever substantiated.

Imho it was not a very clever statement to make public - I think it leaves them wide open on several fronts, particularly in view of the number of abused victims now coming forward with their version of events! Or maybe the local elders will just be left to hang out to dry in each case.

We respect a person's right to free expression. In fact, as Jehovah's Witnesses, we live by that principle every day of our lives.

Sorry! Just had to repeat that one. I am assuming that there will no longer be grounds for accusations of *running ahead of Jehovah*. You will just be using your *right to free expression* which they as fellow Jehovah's Witnesses respect and abide by every day of their lives. Apostasy - a thing of the past maybe....?

19

British Branch to answer to Government!!!!

by dmouse in

immediately after the panorama episode which dealt with the jehovahs witness problem with paedophiles i contacted my local mp, patricia hewitt, to voice my concerns.

it appears that she forwarded my concerns to the parliamentary under secretary of state, hilary ben mp.

this is a copy of the letter she received back, which came in the post this morning.

ChristianObserver

Hello :o)

To help put this in perspective for those unfamiliar with the British Govt, the MP in question, Patricia Hewitt is a member of the Cabinet with roughly the same responsibilities as the US Commerce Secretary. She is an elected MP.

Patricia Hewitt is, therefore, very senior - much more so than Hilary Benn who is a Junior Minister in the Home Office (and son of Tony Benn a former Deputy Leader of the Labour Party).

Patricia is politically associated with the New Labour project and a noted supporter of children's and women's rights. She is not one, therefore, to be fobbed off. Nor do I think that Hilary Benn is fobbing her off.

Britain leaves voluntary organisations alone unless they are associated with law breaking. Individuals are subject to the same law of the land as anyone else and there is no special treatment because you are a member of a religious organisation.

If the WTBTS can be shown to either

encourage people not to comply with the law

to have colluded with law breakers

or have broken the law itself

they will be pursued by the police in the same way as any other member of the public.

If people want the law changed, they need to say in what way they would like it changed and why. There always have to be good public reasons for changes in the law, but in an area like child protection, the Government will be on the side of the children, not institutions.

BUT the Government will need persuading to act.

Patricia Hewitt is one of the best people to be championing this cause. It would be a bit like being Colin Powell if you wanted to lobby President Bush.

The Labour Party conference starts this weekend in Blackpool. I have this evening been speaking to a family member who is attending to meet with certain Ministers and I have raised this matter with them. I want to pass some more detailed information on - but - does anyone know what are the reporting laws - or lack of them - on child abuse in the UK??????

If we don't have mandatory reporting, this would perhaps be the best line to pursue - but I need any info on this that anyone can dig up - please.

Child abuse is in the public eye in this country at the moment - and with an Early Day motion mention by Patricia Hewitt, now is the time to pursue this. I was advised that other avenues where members can help advertise this cause are ChildLine, the NSPCC, The Children's Society etc. The Government would be certain to discuss any changes to the law with these and other organisations/charities relating to children.

15

NEW Barbara Anderson News Story!

by UnDisfellowshipped in

thursday september 26, 2002 6:40 am .

tullahoma, tenn. (ap) - joe and barbara anderson have been abandoned by their peers.

their son won't talk to them, and won't let them see their 3-year-old grandson.

ChristianObserver

Hello :o)

Guardian coverage in the UK at last!

*Their son, Lance Anderson, 41, a church elder in Mishawaka, Ind., said the intention isn't to punish his parents but to lead them to repentance.*

J R Brown said something similar in a public statement.

If this is a statement by the son which has been reported verbatim, I would love to ask him:

*Why do you think that your parents should repent of privately asking the WTBTS questions about their discoveries of organisational mis-handling of cases of paedophilia, and when these questions had been ignored, making the issue public in order to stop other children suffering at the hands of a policy which is a *non-policy* in terms of safeguarding children?

Why do you think your parents should repent of their belief (upheld by research) that victims of paedophilia will not have a second witness to the activity?

Why do you think your parents should repent of their support for traumatised victims of child abuse and their desire to see these children protected in the future?*

I think that Mr Lance Anderson is mistaken in his view of who should be the ones in need of repentance. It is the paedophiles who carry out the initial abuse and those who then *re-abuse* the children by

encouraging a face to face encounter with the perpetrator in accordance with HQ instructions;

requiring the abused to re-live the abuse and recount it in detail in accordance with HQ instructions;

being a male only enquiry team;

having no expertise in the area of child abuse, and therefore being unable to offer any real counsel to the victims;

hiding behind the various state laws on mandatory reporting rather than insituting the most rigorous of them;

claiming clergy/penitent privilege;

having (according to their recent claims) jurisdiction over *spiritual issues* only and yet patently disregarding the victims' spiritual well-being;

disfellowshipping and ostracising those who are abused, have spoken out about abuse or on occasion those who have sought professional help.

The public attitude of the WTBTS and its adherents speaks volumes here and by their fruits, they shall be known.

I feel desperately sad for the situation that Barbara and Joe Anderson find themselves in and my heart goes out to all.

1

AJWRB - Mary's son - JW msg/b response

by ChristianObserver in

i was stunned to read the following response by a jehovah's witness to the story carried by ajwrb (linked on the home page http://www.ajwrb.org/experiences/mary.shtml) of the death of a 15 year old lad detailing his mother's questioning of the wtbts blood doctrine.

the response was posted on a public message board on aol - christianity - topic suggestions.. .

*subject: re: would you use a medical treatment that would 100% sort out a >condition you had, if that medical treatment ........ date: 20/09/2002 15:05 gmt standard time.

ChristianObserver

Hello :o)

I was stunned to read the following response by a Jehovah's Witness to the story carried by AJWRB (linked on the home page http://www.ajwrb.org/experiences/mary.shtml) of the death of a 15 year old lad detailing his mother's questioning of the WTBTS blood doctrine. The response was posted on a public message board on AOL - Christianity - Topic Suggestions.

*Subject: Re: Would you use a medical treatment that would 100% sort out a >condition you had, if that medical treatment .......
Date: 20/09/2002 15:05 GMT Standard Time
From: [email protected]
Message-id: <[email protected]>

I was moved by the story you pasted but the fact remains that the faithful brother kept his relationship with Jehovah who will resurrect him in due time, he will be greeted by his faithful earthly father and his brothers as they are reunited, how sad that his mother lost her faith in God and puts herself in danger of not being there to greet him also.

Andrea

There has been a lot of posting there re the blood position over the last 2 days. Anyone from AOL can join the discussion.