Posts by careful

16

Ray Franz - Why The Watchtower Cannot Reform

by Anna Marina in

this is me reading a letter ray kindly sent to me in 2008 explaining why the watchtower was not capable of reform.

the letter is full of wisdom and is very informative.. ray franz's letter to me - why the watchtower cannot reform.

careful

Thx for this post, AM. I can empathize with you since it was only since after I left the org that I came to realize in a fuller manner how difficult it is for intelligent women to be in it. What a trial for you and for other women!

I generally agree that the WT org will not reform. I respect Ray Franz and his efforts, but I do have some disagreements with him. One is that there exists a single possibility for reform: only a massive crisis will ever cause real change in the org. I find it interesting that so far, at least since Rutherford's day, such a thing has not happened to them. Whether it will occur in the future or not, who knows?

Since I lived through the Ray Franz episode as an active Witness, your experience here is also educational for me as an example of someone discovering him after it was over. You did it without coming to forums like this one. That seems unusual.

39

The real dividing line isn’t between apostates and apologists it’s between...

by slimboyfat in

excellent observation from zizek about communist regimes: they didn’t care if people accepted the ideology or took it seriously, so long as people acted as if the ideology was true, that was the important thing.

in fact the regimes were deeply suspicious people who took the ideology too seriously.

people who took the ideology seriously were dangerous because they were prone to noticing the inconsistencies and flaws in the system.

careful

A post by SBF that does not tell about his "joining" some minor religious group or the WTS's imminent collapse—wow, the times must be achanging!

You have point, of course, but let me play devil's advocate and bring up what might be called "loyal success stories" who have spent time learning Hebrew and/or Greek formally, and have remained within the Witness fold: Hal Flemings, Max Wörnhard (who was both a CO and a professor of classics), Rolf Furuli, Edgar Foster, Pavlos Vasileiadis, and Gérard Gertoux. Of course, one could just write these characters off and say "They're an exception." However, given how rare it is to find any JWs who study these ancient languages in a serious, formal manner, such a number should not be so easily swept away. Furthermore, for a theory, like the one you are proposing, to be solid, it should be able to handle contrary evidence, as you well know. Why is it that these types have not crossed the delicate line from apologist to apostate? Obviously they have thought a lot about theology. To them the religion is not just behavior.

Your response?

17

The new JW Bible

by silas hobbs in

jw
friends

i was recently informed that the new jw bible was reviewed by some academic type person who rated it as one of the best translations available.. has anyone heard of this person and if so what is his reasoning for giving it such a compliment?.

careful

Perhaps you heard, or the source you got this info from heard, about comments on the NWT by Jason BeDuhn in his 2003 book Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Bible Translations of the New Testament. Since it came out 10 years before the revised NWT, it can't have covered the revised edition. BeDuhn is a religious studies professor at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff. In his book he discusses a number of translations, but he seems to spend an exceptional amount of time defending the NWT against its critics.

41

Creepy display

by neat blue dog in

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i dunno about you, but if i walked up to this display at an expo i'd be a little creeped out..

careful

nbg, thx for this. Yes it does look creepy. The leadership and the sheep seem to have no idea how weird they have become.

2

A&E Cult show replaying on Court TV tomorrow

by careful in

that "cult and extreme belief" show that elizabeth vargas put together and showed on a&e in 2018 is being rebroadcast tomorrow on the court tv channel.

it has several groups including nxvim, warren jeffs, and jws.

for the last it has the case of romy maple—in case anyone missed it and wants to check it out..

careful

That "Cult and Extreme Belief" show that Elizabeth Vargas put together and showed on A&E in 2018 is being rebroadcast tomorrow on the Court TV channel. It has several groups including NXVIM, Warren Jeffs, and JWs. For the last it has the case of Romy Maple—in case anyone missed it and wants to check it out.

15

Russian raid on 50 Jehovahs witnesses

by Diogenesister in

there has been a raid on a large jehovahs witness gathering in norilsk, above the arctic circle, according to the moscow times.. a building with 50 jws inside was surrounded by masked, armed special forces forces who burst into the building and demanded they surrender all electronic devices.. i'll link the article but it's obviously going to drive these witnesses deeper into the religion.

not to mention the images conjured up in the report are likely to be used by watchtower as more fear mongering, since its very much like last year's terrifying assembly videos where witnesses were huddled in a field and surrounded with similarly masked, armed men.. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/10/22/russian-special-agents-raid-jehovahs-witnesses-resort-as-crackdown-intensifies-a67855.

careful

DG, thx for the post.

44

PIMO Elder with a Dilemma

by xjwsrock in

i haven’t been on here in awhile and this is my second user name because i was busted by my pimi wife on the first one.

i have been basically awake since 2013. i have a super dub wife that i love and don’t want to lose and my sick mom in the hall that is a true believer.

stupid religion has gotten between my wife and i (of course).

careful

I fail to see WHY you want to remain an elder. You don't believe it anymore, right? Some of your duties likely will cause you to have to do things that violate what you now believe. Does staying appointed serve some purpose in your life (like making your wife happy)? Why not just step down and take a well needed breather? Let the stupid fellow elders have their silly way. Does "putting them in their place" really matter now?

23

U.S. Supreme Court Rejects Appeal by Jehovah’s Witnesses

by annihilator in

u.s. supreme court rejects appeal by jehovah’s witnesses of 2015 california trial court ordersan diego, ca, october 24, 2019 --(pr.com)-- on october 7, 2019, the u.s. supreme court rejected the petition for writ of certiorari filed by the watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc. (“watchtower”), requesting that the supreme court review a case filed by the zalkin law firm in 2013. in the case of jw v. watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc. et.

al., the riverside superior court of california awarded the plaintiff, “j.w.,” a judgment of $4,016,152.39 plus interest at 10% per year after terminating watchtower’s defense, because it refused to obey the court’s order to produce files of known child molesters within the jw organization.

in 2018, the fourth district court of appeal in california upheld that decision.

careful

Well, the bill for this lawsuit alone now stands at $4.4+ million and it increases daily. The one in Montana has a higher judgement. They'd best start paying up, for it will only get worse as they put off payment and as these new laws extending the statute of limitations for CSA filers kick in.

Thx, annihilator, for the info.

16

Sisters

by truthlover123 in

jw
friends

during the first talk tonight, the brother giving the talk indicated that now comments were to include sisters!

previously mostly only brothers were mentioned in most prayers or comments - has anyone else heard this tonight?.

the meeting seemed to be positioned directly to and about sisters.

careful

I don't think truthlover123's OP is speaking about the sisters teaching, and I don't want to take his/her OP and send it off in another direction. He/She spoke about comments and prayers including sisters in their subject matter—that's all. I've been inactive for decades so, as to his/her request about anyone else hearing this reputed change, well, I can't comment on that.

I can, however, relate that when I was in and would speak out giving the PT in congregations not my own, I was, as was the custom, asked to give the closing prayer after the WT study. I usually made it a point to include the sisters in my prayers along with anyone I felt might be neglected in the cong. On many occasions afterward, sisters would come up to me and thank me for giving them even this tiny bit of attention.

13

Los Angeles Times: California braces for deluge of child-sex-assault lawsuits under new law

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-10-20/california-child-sex-assault-lawsuits-new-law.

san diego — matt smyth’s secret was revealed in his senior year of high school with a knock on the front door of his family’s fallbrook, calif., home.. two plainclothes sheriff’s detectives were investigating reports that smyth’s former assistant scoutmaster — the one who’d driven kids to boy scout meetings, chaperoned camp-outs and hosted fishing outings on his bucolic property — had molested several boys.. to the shock of his parents, smyth shared that he’d been a victim, too.

but the bombshell stayed close to home for decades.

careful

Thanks for the update. Further fear among the GB and others who are in the know within the org.