As others have said, money was obviously a factor—leaving the city has been a real money maker for them. Likely another factor was the success (in their eyes) of Wallkill and Patterson. So why not finish the NYC exodus?
careful
JoinedPosts by careful
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Why Did JWs Abandon Brooklyn for the Sticks?
by Room 215 ini may have missed this, but can anyone tell me what was the pretext the gb concocted to justify their abandonment of a perfectly suitable, high-profile, high-visibility complex in what is arguably the world's greatest metropolis for the bucolic isolation of upstate new york.
any how does the move square with their purported belief in the imminence of armageddon?
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WTBTS' corrupt translation - to elevate elders!
by The Searcher inthe wt march 2017, p.11, par.
13 quotes ephesians 4:8 as saying, "the bible refers to them as 'gifts in men.
however, the org's own kingdom interlinear translation (and every other bible translation) gives a truthful translation of the verse: .
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careful
Thank you, Searcher, for this post. Knowing that Fred Franz loved to take an oddball position with some frequency, I checked some of the lesser known translations since others have stated in their replies that they checked the major ones. The only ones I could find without "to" were a small group (Stevens, Way, Schonfield) who rendered the verb as "bestowed" and therefore used "on" or "upon" for the English preposition instead of "to," but that rendering means the same as "gave ... to." I can only wonder what was going through FF's mind back in the late 1940s, long before the WTS had the "elder arrangement," when he came up with this translation. The natural way to take the dative case here is as an indirect object with a verb of giving, "to...". Chalk up another mystery of the ever eccentric FF...
It is of interest that the revisers of the NWT let his rendering stand.
As for your statement,
These couldn't be the gifts which Paul spoke about at 1 Corinthians chapter 12, could they?
don't you think the following verse (11) in Eph. 4 is germane? "He gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelizers, other as shepherds and teachers." That is, of course, the same concept as at 1 Cor. 12:28, right?
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The Metropolitan Museum Oasis Bible Tours in NYC
by Beachlover ini just came home from a day in nyc and was taken to the met for the the woman and her offspring tour i went to keep peace and just enjoy my family.
i've been to the metrpolitan museum of art on many occasions and have enjoyed spending time wandering thru the exhibits appreciating the art and history.
since all family members wanted to do the tour by the wts entitled a woman and her offspring, i thought i could just follow along and just enjoy the art and exhibits.. in all honesty, i'm still amazed at this whole tour.
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careful
Sorry I missed Listener's post. I was trying to answer rebel8's question which was posed after Listener's post. Hopefully I served to condense it.
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The Metropolitan Museum Oasis Bible Tours in NYC
by Beachlover ini just came home from a day in nyc and was taken to the met for the the woman and her offspring tour i went to keep peace and just enjoy my family.
i've been to the metrpolitan museum of art on many occasions and have enjoyed spending time wandering thru the exhibits appreciating the art and history.
since all family members wanted to do the tour by the wts entitled a woman and her offspring, i thought i could just follow along and just enjoy the art and exhibits.. in all honesty, i'm still amazed at this whole tour.
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careful
Fortunately, I have never experienced such "tours," but my immediate guess is that "the woman and her seed" (old NWT) or the "the woman and her offspring" (rev NWT) has to do with Gen. 3:15. The WTS publications have long held that those cryptic lines are the theme of the entire Bible. That is, those words were spoken in Eden and then this seed or offspring was gradually revealed piecemeal down through the history of God's dealing with the patriarchs, Israelites, Jews, and earliest Christians. According to WT theology the woman is Jehovah's heavenly organization (the angels) and the offspring is mainly Jesus and then his 144,000-member bride.
Since this is one unique religious belief among JWs—most of them can be found in other religious groups (a point Ray Franz made in CofC)—it should not be surprising that whoever runs this tour service would latch onto it for a theme in their tour. It would fit the viewpoint, that the supposed 90% of the museum's holding are pointless, which the OP related. I suspect that it might also be an attempt to catch the attention of women who might initially think that the tour would highlight women in general down through history as testified by the art in the museum's holdings. Obviously such an expectation would end in disappointment.
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Jehovahs Witnesses and Marijuana
by NikL ini live in california where pot just became legal for recreational use very similar to alcohol.
my wife who is a very active jw has had her medical card for cannabis for a couple of years now.
and i know several in our congregations around our area who are using it medically.
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careful
Well, sounds like the GB will have to make a pronouncement on this one! Does anyone know what has been the WT procedure in countries where it has been recreationally legal for a some time (Uruguay, the Czech Republic) ?
Loved these comments:
Getting high probably would make the meetings and conventions go by much quicker.
Okay, now I'm picturing a California congregation all happily buzzed during the public talk... One bro. I know who quit going years ago once said that he'd ever go back, he'd have to go drugged in order to tolerate the meetings.
Allowing it may up the meeting attendance, memorial statistics, baptisms, etc. Sounds like a win-win Tony, Sam, Mark, David, Geoffrey, and Gerrit, if you're listening. Better than a "door-step Bible study"?
Can you imagine Stephen Lett high? Whoah, would that be something!!!
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How consistently were Christians persecuted in the first 200 years of church history?
by fulltimestudent inthis scene from quo vadis is how most christians (of all brands) imagine the early history of christianity.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skdrflc8v9e.
but how close to real-life experience is that modern portrayal?.
two historians from the university of queensland search for the likely truth in this overview.. http://theconversation.com/mythbusting-ancient-rome-throwing-christians-to-the-lions-67365.
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careful
Are you asking a question or trying to teach here? Your post does not match your topic label which is framed in the form of a question... Do you expect a response to your posed question or just want an audience?
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Copy of Crisis of Conscience for Sale
by Village Idiot ini’ve run into hard financial times and have decided to sell my second copy of coc for a fair price.
you’ll find them on amazon for ridiculous prices starting from $59.84 for a beat up used one to $294.96 and up for a new condition copy.
i’m selling mine in new condition for $50.00 plus shipping which should not be more than $5.
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careful
VI, listen to SBF. He knows the market.
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So, how did the 'beard article' go over yesterday at your congregation?
by neat blue dog inat mine the conductor was somewhat awkward and minimal and there were nervous chuckles from the audience.
two people, including an elder, gave reasonable comments that it's okay as long as it's not extreme styles, etc.
but then another one of the elders commented that nothing has changed and they still aren't proper locally.
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careful
OK, so the real question is which one of the GB will be the first to grow a beard and end all this nonsense about what the article means. Take your pick: will it be tight-pants Tony M, or perhaps G. Lösch? Ha!
If one of them ever did, beards would catch on like wildfire, like a volcano that had been plugged up for years and has been let loose. Half the R&F bros. would have them within a month, with the other half standing aghast.
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Is there a biblical basis for separation or divorce?
by Conias inis there a biblical basis for separation or divorce?.
in the event that one of the spouses is being psychologically mistreated in a very serious manner where his health is severely damaged and even his own life is in danger.
is there a biblical basis for jehovah's witnesses for separation or divorce?.
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careful
For those who have been to the Kingdom Ministry School (KMS) or whatever it's called now, a teaching that may be little known to the R&F was discussed on the point of marital separation, not divorce.
The words "agreeable to dwelling" (old NWT) or "agreeable to staying" (rev. NWT) at 1 Cor. 7:12 have been applied as a principle that can legitimize martial separation. That is, on the surface, in the context of the apostle Paul's letter to the Corinthians, these words seem only to be talking about a Christian sister with an unbelieving husband. If he wants to remain married to the woman, then she should stay with her unbelieving husband. But the WTS takes this principle and applies it to other situations in martial life, some of which can lead to an acceptable separation, not—directly at any rate—to a divorce.
The thinking runs like this: if by one spouse's conduct he (or she) does things that can be viewed as non-agreeable to dwelling, then the wife (or husband) can separate from the mate. Such non-agreeable conduct can be certain kinds of physical abuse. I do not know the full history of this interpretation and application of 1 Cor. 7:12 in WTS history, but it may be that this is how it first came about, as a way to help those sisters who were being abused by their husbands. I remember it being stressed by the KMS instructor that such a separation does not free the sister from the marriage and enable her to divorce and remarry. It just sets up an acceptable—to the organization—separation which will not get the sister in trouble with the elders, CO, or GB.
I remember thinking to myself that if the unbelieving husband is a normal healthy horny guy, it won't take long for him to seek out sexual release somewhere else, and that would then give the sister the green light for divorce and remarriage. I also wondered how many R&F had so used this "arrangement" or "understanding" of 1 Cor. 7:21 to free themselves from a poor marriage selection.
Move down in time and I believe that this same principle has been further taken out Paul's original context and applied to Witness spouses whose mates become "apostates." This then is what Perry and blondie have referred to above. In other words, it's the supposed scriptural basis for a faithful Witness separating from his or her mate because of "absolute endangerment of one's spirituality," a spouse who questions the GB, the org, and all that.
I've been out for 20+ years now and do not keep up with the publications, so I do not know whether this supposed scriptural basis has been discussed in some publication open to the average publisher, or is still hidden away in the elder's handbook or in some BOE letter.
Perhaps someone who is still in and has access to the secret pubs can tell us the status in this "scriptural" interpretation for separation and/or its record for setting up handy divorces.
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J W Survey Article : Upcoming Assembly Encourages J W Youth to Lie About Homosexuality
by BluesBrother in..........however, it seems that this practice [theocratic warfare] is seeping more and more into regular witness life.
in fact, one speech outline for the upcoming 2017 circuit assembly appears to directly encourage witnesses to lie to the general public about watchtower’s teachings on homosexuality............. http://jwsurvey.org/mind-control/upcoming-2017-jw-assembly-encourages-witness-youths-to-lie-about-homosexuality.
nb this is a month old.. if it has been previously posted and i missed it, sorry .
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careful
"Watchtower encourages JW youths to lie"...
...in other news, water is wet.
So funny because it's so true!