this question may produce some flaming, but so be it.
i've noticed many are freaked out, annoyed, worried, or simply felt harrassed when faced with the prospect of a visit from the elders when trying to fade.
others, or at times the same ones, complain that they recieved no inquiry from them at all or very little.
Nope....I dread the day my hubby wants us to have a "sheparding call" from the bros, so as to encourage me to return to meetings! I won't be hurt or offended if we never get one.... I don't know that I can trust myself to not blurt out things that would probably put me under the microscope if they were to ask me direct questions about my feelings/beliefs!!
Hi GGG!!!! I'll always be your friend, you can count on me!!!
bythesea
after 2 months of old age and illness, 2 cancelled vet appts, hoping he would get better, tears, frustration, watching him not eat, throwing up, becoming skin and bones, justifying keeping him, i stuck to this morning's appointment.. he was with me for the last 12 years of my life and his life has been entwined in so many of the memories i have.. to tell you about him, would be an essay.
i just want everyone to know that he was so close to me.
in the end, i kissed him on his head, said, "good boy, you're a good boy" and he laid his head on my hands and went to sleep.. i love you and will miss your crazy dog ways.
(((((((((((((((((((hugs Jez))))))))))))))))))))))))
Last week my faithful companion died in my arms...he was 12 also......so I totally understand what you are going through. Since his illness wasn't causing him pain(according to the vet & I didn't sense any either) we had decided to keep him with us until it was obvious he wasn't enjoying life as we knew he should. It happened in a 24 hr period....from chasing sticks to staggering to my side, hanging his head in confusion at his condition. I'm glad I didn't have to make the decision to have him put down...as painful as it was to have him collapse in my arms and take his last breathe I'm glad we were able to do it all at home. I haven't sobbed so hard since my father died several years ago.....and have been having frequent meltdowns since then...I miss him so much!
There's just nothing like a dog, one that loves us unconditionally, who makes us laugh when we don't want to, who can't wait to see us when we return home at the end of the day(this is the time I miss him most!)....I share your loss, Jez.....my heart is broken too.
bythesea
i've recently had surgery and with all the expense and the time i am going to miss from work, my family and friends have agreed that we will exchange home-made items only this year.
i would love to make cookies for everyone.
the gorgeous cookie-cutter kind that you decorate.
yummmmmmmm.... This thread has brought back wonderful memories of growing up with my grandma and always helping make cutout sugar cookies this time of year....decorating them with colored frosting and little silver balls and sprinkles! It was a highlight of the year for me!(obviously pre JW days!!) I think you got some good advice for coming up with a good recipe so I'll just add on that other easy candy recipes are rum balls, and I have a dynamite recipe for Reese's candy, if you want!
Glad you're feeling better, whyizit!! And thanks for the recent email...I'll get back to you soon!!
i was asked to post my da letter here.
sure, it's not exactly short, but it lays out specific reasons why i no longer believe the watchtower society is the, "one sole truth on earth" that i used to believe it was.
my wife no longer goes to any meetings either.
Welcome Vinny...your DA letter was very long and difficult to read through but I'm glad I made the effort...VERY well done! You did your research, and kept a good attitude when expressing it in your letter. I wish I were able to depart in the same way.... when I presented my hubby with a 7 page letter outlining much of what you presented I got the same kind of response as you got from the bros that "counseled" you before you handed in your letter. So I'm doing a slower fade....
Would it be ok if I copied some of your letter for future use??
It IS difficult to have so much of what you lived by and for proven to be false...but when those chains finally fall away the mental freedom is wonderful.... I hope we hear more from you...let us know how it goes.... we went through a similar situation with our DF son, so I could really relate to your feelings on that one...hope he is doing good now too! Take care.
bythesea
well, things have moved on...my jw man has been agonizing over whether he should be seeing me or not?!
if i was a jw it would all be different?!
is that not like saying if i was not "black,american,german,white ect" surely this is racism of some kind?
Smily....aaaahhhh, the things people won't do for love!!! I don't think it is right to give someone false hope, if that is what you're doing, but you might be able to turn this around and use it to your good....the Bible study you have agreed to, I mean. I assume that is what you meant by agreeing to "have a look"...???
You may be able to use a Bible study to form questions about what you are learning and get him to rethink some of his stand and dedication to the religion. Many on this forum can help you to see the inconsistancies in their books and their doctrine. Use this as an opportunity to read up on the religion's beginnings and past history then have your friend explain it to you...chances are he isn't aware of their flip flops and past doctrinal changes... it might get him to think about things!
Don't let your boyfriend make you feel like you aren't good enough as you are....and probably it isn't HIM who feels that way, its just the pressure he receives from the WTS that tells him he shouldn't be forming relationships with anyone outside of the org. Good luck on this one, Smily!!
i just read the current resurrected thread on spirituality and thought i would throw this out for those who are interested, and w/out hi-jacking the other thread!
i attended a class yesterday and received this handout on the subject:.
spirituality........ "the spiritual journey is individual, highly personal.
I just read the current resurrected thread on spirituality and thought I would throw this out for those who are interested, and w/out hi-jacking the other thread! I attended a class yesterday and received this handout on the subject:
SPIRITUALITY.......
"The spiritual journey is individual, highly personal. It can't be organized or regulated. It isn't true that everybody should follow one path. Listen to your own truth." .....Ram Dass
"The longest journey of any person is the journey inward."...Unknown
"Spirituality is coming alive with joy and the final value of all spirituality, however sourced or named, is what we are and what we do."....Unknown
"Spirituality is the opening of the self at its deepest level to God, a centering of the self in the God in whom we live and move and have our being."...Marcus Borg
"Spirituality is the way we orient ourselves toward the Divine. It is the way we make meaning out of our lives. It is the recognition of the presence of Spirit within us and the cultivation of a style of life consistent with that presence. Spirituality provides a perspective to foster purpose, meaning, and direction to life. It may find expressions through religion but is not religion."...12 Step Recovery
"Having to do with deep, often religious, feeling and beliefs, including a person's sense of peace, purpose, connection to others, and beliefs about the meaning of life."...Nat'l Cancer Institute
"....perhaps spiritual is that which opens our hearts, minds, being, and communities to take the chance of being ourselves for the sake of all the world."...Robert Whalley
"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or of acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."....Carl Sagan
One of the presenters in the class made the comment of how spirituality is NOT morality, psycology nor religion. In fact, she said, religion can often detract from ones spirituality! I wanted to stand up and cheer in agreement!! Its so nice to be finding my own spirituality once again after so many years of just being religious!!
bythesea
i was thinking this morning about an incident that happened yesterday and came to a very welcome realization..like rett butler, i simply dont give a damn..what others preconceived notions or expectations of me are anymore.i am happy, and content with who and where i am in my life.its a good place to be emotionally and mentally, after being soooo tormented for so many years.with all the negative people pleasing baggage i carried around.its like erica jong said:at fifty, the madwoman in the attic breaks loose, stomps down the stairs, and sets fire to the house.
she won't be imprisoned anymore.its a great place to be, as a woman.anyone else care to share?.
terri.
Great thread and a topic I recently had a conversation on with another woman just yesterday. She is going through her own breakthrough in her life and knows nothing of my JW past(well, kind of past, I'm still fading!). We both agreed that there just seems to come a point when, if you've been feeling controlled or repressed in any sense, that you figure by this fifty-something age you should finally be able to speak up and declare how you feel about it all!
I admit that I still struggle with making people happy, but it is now confined to just my family and no longer includes anyone from the org and even the brief conversations I've had with my family have turned out well enough to not have caused anyone to be avoiding me! When I state that I feel that by this point in my life I ought to be able to live my life with integrity to MYSELF it seems to hit a note with some.
I'm discovering a whole world of women out there who have gone through this same point in their lives, having nothing to do with repressive religions! Yeah!!!! Here's to our sisterhood!!!!!! And "brothers", here's to you too!!!!!
bythesea
<!-- .style1 { font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: #3e3e7b; } .style2 { font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; } .style3 {font-family: arial, sans-serif} --> yes, your clothing really does matterbeing one of jehovah's witnesses always made.
the individual conscious of the clothes you were .
the men had to wear suits and the women.
My son was a teenager in the early 90's and frequently was taken to the back room to be counseled, usually by one elder in particular, about his choice of shirt and tie...patterned shirts were not allowed, it seems, and my son had a nice dark one with small design that he thought looked good with his dark suit...and he wore a solid color tie to go with it...it was very tasteful, but NOT allowed. No reason given, just DON"T. Also, choice of shoe style was criticised...no Doc Martens, no matter how polished they were! Yet, one of the elder's wives dressed so bohemian that when we first moved to that KH I thought she was someone's bible study...couldn't believe she was an elder's wife and got away with her thrift-store baggy styles(and I love to shop thrift stores myself!!), but you get the idea! So, maybe it's who you know that determines what is ok?
In another vein, a friends daughter who was pioneering was criticized by the brothers for being TOO modest in her dress choice! She liked the long dresses and I guess with her long hair which she wore braided down her back she looked too "hippyish" for their taste! Her dad was one of the elders and her mom a pioneer also and they both went to bat for her, but lost...either she dressed more "appropriate" (meaning knee length suit skirt and blouse, using one of the older elder's wives as an example or she would be removed from the pioneer list!). Today she is out, happily married and wears whatever she darn well pleases!
my jw sister's husband is dying of cancer.
he's never been a jw, though he has pretended interest for years, mostly just to keep her happy and hopeful.
i don't believe he ever intended more than that.
I did attend the memorial service of a non-JW at a KH...the husband of this pioneer sister had always been supportive of his wife, allowing all their children to be raised in the faith, very hospitable to "the friends" and was generally a very nice guy although never studied or went to meetings other than Memorial every year with her. As was pointed out, it is the call, evidently, of each body of elders how far they will go with it.
does any one know how the history of disfellowshipping arose and unfolded in the jws?
i have the impression that it started after rutherford died though he would very occasionally expel his troublesome opponents as "enemies of jehovah's people".
it was also rare in russell's days as far as i know.
I found a couple of places in R. Franz' second book, In Search of Christian Freedom, where he outlines some of the early history of the disfellowshipping process in the WTS. There is a blurb on pg 96 & 246-9. What he says on pg 96 verifies your comment about DF being rare during the presidency of both Russell and Rutherford, at least for persons who conscientiously objected to certain teachings.
Following Russell's death and Rutherford's election to the presidency a very different tone and spirit manifested itself in the org's administration. The legalistic manner which we now see within the org had its roots with Rutherford, from what Franz tells us. It was during the 1950's, though, that a code of rules began to be outlined, going beyond scriptures such as 1 Cor. 5. Much of that code of rules was determined by Fred Franz during his vice presidency to Knorr. I liked this comment from the book:
"I do not question the sincerity of Fred Franz' efforts in this area. but the result, I believe, illustrates how wrong it is to allocate to any man, not the mere extending of counsel or advice, but the actual deciding of matters that rightfully should rest with the individual consciences of those personally involved."
Hope this is some help to you... bythesea
