Posts by Woodsman

14

Is't God gonna kill SOMBODY on Armadeddon?

by crankytoe in

maybe i'm confused, but most comments on on this subject seem to suggest that people are appalled at the idea that jw's say god will kill alot of people on armageddon.

especially children.

i'm wondering why is this so outlandish a concept?

Great Crowd vs. Other Sheep

by prophecor in

would someone briefly help me understand the divide that exist between the great crowd and the remnant, 144,000 who go to heaven?

what scriptural backing does the society use to justify their position that they are the only ones who are able to enjoy a covenant relationship with jesus christ, where those of the " great crowd " are only granted a relationship through extension through the 144,000?.

i've been around the truth for a large portion of my life, never really knowing this was an issue.

Woodsman

The Annointed being called the Christ really helps to put application to the scriptures,

Mt 24:5 " Many will come on the basis of my name , saying I AM THE CHRIST and will MISLEAD many"

Mt 24:23 "If anyone says to you, Look, Here is the Christ, or There! DO NOT BELIEVE IT."

Lu 21:8 "Look out that you are not mislead, for many will come on the basis of my name saying I am he and the due time has approached, DO NOT GO AFTER THEM"

Did you know the King James Version translates Lu 21:8 as saying that many would say"the time is at hand" and not to follow them. The Watchtower was using the KJV in 1881 when they published the book "THE TIME IS AT HAND" So why did anyone follow them?

On the great crowd I'll add that Rutherford referred to the annointed remnant as "Jehovah's Witnesses" and the great company were people who were friendly toward them. This is how they were to enter Armageddon but of course it never came and so they ended up with more and more Great Company joining them. Now 99.7% of the org is nonannointed Great Crowd. Does not make sense or harmonize with scripture.

John 10:16 is referring to the gentiles as someone said. The concept of the two groups becoming one flock is spoken of at length by Paul. Ephesian 2:11-22. It happened in the first century not in 1935.

Even the WTS says the Bible is written for the Annointed. It does not describe a relationship between Nonannointed Christians and God. The Great Crowd as defined by the WTS are not described in Scripture.

Just read some scriptures like Romans 8:14. The Great Crowd are not God's sons so are they not led by Spirit? You could go on and on but the point is the relationship they say the Great Crowd has with God is not a Biblical teaching.

The WTS's practice of saying the Bible applies to the Great Crowd "by extension" is fallacy.

Soon, Armageddon will not come and the WTS will have to change things even more.

8

Anointed JW That Pickets KH At Memorial Finally Disfellowshipped!

by minimus in

jw
friends

i heard they made an announcement.

he called the po to see whether he and his wife were announced as being d'fd.

the po didn't want to talk to him but finally conceded that his wife was not d'fd.

Woodsman

I thought the two new guys partook and claimed to be annointed? Great crowd GB members? Please explain further.

14

Is't God gonna kill SOMBODY on Armadeddon?

by crankytoe in

maybe i'm confused, but most comments on on this subject seem to suggest that people are appalled at the idea that jw's say god will kill alot of people on armageddon.

especially children.

i'm wondering why is this so outlandish a concept?

Woodsman

James,

The American Indians say if you put the Bible outside the wind and rain will eventually destroy it. The wind and rain are their Gods. So as you say, look around you.

116

remember apostates holding signs outside the convention?

by in a new york bethel minute in

i remember there was one that used to go to my hall.

he would say hi to my dad and my dad would ignore him.

i know now that my father feels bad for that, but at the same time he had no choice.

Woodsman

"MILLIONS NOW LIVING" are dead.

Thats awesome!

99

Scholar, please don't post and run...

by in a new york bethel minute in

now, could you do us all a favour and read the replies to your post in the 607 thread?

there were a lot of questions raised by your comment and i think it would be a good witness if you would at least attempt to answer them.

two very important ones are:.

Woodsman

I heard from a poster on Channel C that the new edition of the New World Translation in his language, Swedish?,has changed the wording of Jeremiah to 70 years FOR Babylon from 70 years AT Babylon. Perhaps a change is in the works at the society on this chronology.

9

Russell of Annointed, how do you know?

by Woodsman in

when russell started the wts and began promoting his epistimology the teachings were not what they were today.

most noteable was that christ was present in 1874. thus he believed he and others were chosen by christ to be of the elect remnant who would serve as part of the 144,000 the witnesses recognize today.. the problem occurs when the wts, or judge rutherford, changed 1874 to 1914. .

now christ did not perform any "inspection" until 1919.. he did not chose any fds until 1919.. well, russell was dead in 1919.. therefore prior to 1919 russell was just as any other christian group was.

Woodsman

Thanks all,

I haven't read that 2005 Wt although I have read similiar statements and they did lead me to question the whole inclusion of the Bible students activities in the current process though they occurred before the JWs say the last days began. I have also found fault with the inferences that the 19th century Bible students pointed toward 1914 for Christ's return when they belived he had returned in 1874. Its a meshing of two different doctrines. The modern day WTS is trying to make it seem as though the 19th century WTS believed pretty much the same thing as what is taught today. This simply is not the case.

If you doubt this ask any JW who does not read "apostate" material what year the early Bible Students predicted Christ's invisible presence would begin and they will say 1914. It is the "lying apostates" who will tell the truth about 1874 while the WTS will try to keep it hidden.

Ann is right about 1799. There was also thought to be a 40 year period of a time of trouble from 1874, Christ's return, and 1914, Armageddon. All was wrong and does not resemble modern teaching at all.

9

Russell of Annointed, how do you know?

by Woodsman in

when russell started the wts and began promoting his epistimology the teachings were not what they were today.

most noteable was that christ was present in 1874. thus he believed he and others were chosen by christ to be of the elect remnant who would serve as part of the 144,000 the witnesses recognize today.. the problem occurs when the wts, or judge rutherford, changed 1874 to 1914. .

now christ did not perform any "inspection" until 1919.. he did not chose any fds until 1919.. well, russell was dead in 1919.. therefore prior to 1919 russell was just as any other christian group was.

Woodsman

When Russell started the WTS and began promoting his epistimology the teachings were not what they were today. Most noteable was that Christ was present in 1874. Thus he believed he and others were chosen by Christ to be of the Elect Remnant who would serve as part of the 144,000 the witnesses recognize today.

The problem occurs when the WTS, or Judge Rutherford, changed 1874 to 1914.

Now Christ did not perform any "inspection" until 1919.

He did not chose any FDS until 1919.

Well, Russell was dead in 1919.

Therefore prior to 1919 Russell was just as any other Christian group was. They were in the running to see if they would be judged worthy of being "good and faithful slaves" (according to WTS teaching) who would be appointed by the Master.

To hold that the Master was privately working with one man or group before the judging took place would be corrupt. Why wouldn't he have also been working with the other groups. It could not be due to doctrine since according to the WTS many of Russells doctrines are wrong.

If Russell is included because the Witnesses believe the Lord was in his work then what about those who Russell believed had the Lord in their work. He speaks about the Lords hand being behind the Millerite movement as this movement preceeded his own. Should these also be included in the WTS's line of Annointed. Be careful because 144,000 is filled quickly if you trace the history back too far. Perhaps that is why the WTS makes a break with all others at Russell. But why? He didn't. And if his linear portrayal is inaccurate why is he included in the WTS's current portrayal? The break with all others should logically be at 1919. If you take it back further you have to provide a reason to start at Russell, in spite of the fact that Russell didn't start with himself.

3

Great Multitude and Heaven (scans needed)

by golden age in

today in the wt literature, it is very clear that most people will stay on earth and the the 144k will go to heaven, but in review of the older literature it is very difficult to understand exactly what they believed.

they had 4 classes the 144k who would go to heaven, a great company who would also be a heavenly class, but they also had two earthly classes.

who were part of these earthly classes?

Woodsman

I'm not sure your take on Millions is completely accurate. The WTS taught that heaven was the goal for the 144,000 and the great multitude. I can provide some quotes from Millions soon when my copy arrives. I also have many 1930-1935 publications that track the developement of the current Great Crowd doctrine. I'll throw some quotes in a post from these too.

239

Watchtower Gives Up Explaining 607 BCE Date!

by VM44 in

this is a very important observation, that the watchtower has not tried to explain in print why 607 bce is the year for the destruction of jerusalem for the last 17 years!!!.

all that the watchtower has done over most of the last two decades is to repeat over and over the year "607bce" in its publications as if it is an unquestioned fact!.

the last time an explaination for the year was attempted by the watchtower was in 1988 when the "insight" volumes were published, but since then, no explaination for the validity of the year has appeared in print.. this must mean something, but what?

Woodsman

Scholar,

It is not apostate thinking but scholarly thinking. Unless the WTS now calls Anthroplogists, Historians and Archeologists apostates.