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Condemned in Their Own Words
by comment inhere is an excerpt from the study article entitled "peace, security and the 'image of the beast'" in the october 1, 1985 issue of the watchtower.
(note: the organizations referred to in paragraph 10 are satan's political system and the united nations.).
10 did you notice something else about the beast?
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Philosophical wisdom from the FDS
by comment inlisten to this powerful condemnation of the inane worldly philosophers, socrates and plato, appearing in the april 15, 1956 watchtower article "they are without excuse":.
"who can read their works without being struck with the empty-headedness of their reasonings, as well as with the stupidity of their nonsense when speaking about god?".
the overwhelming intellectual power of such analysis from god's chosen channel is manifest in that the very same words could be applied to our beloved faithful and discreet slave!.
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Listen to this powerful condemnation of the inane worldly philosophers, Socrates and Plato, appearing in the April 15, 1956 Watchtower article "They Are Without Excuse":
"Who can read their works without being struck with the empty-headedness of their reasonings, as well as with the stupidity of their nonsense when speaking about God?"
Who indeed? Who? Who?
The overwhelming intellectual power of such analysis from God's chosen channel is manifest in that the very same words could be applied to our beloved faithful and discreet slave!
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Condemned in Their Own Words
by comment inhere is an excerpt from the study article entitled "peace, security and the 'image of the beast'" in the october 1, 1985 issue of the watchtower.
(note: the organizations referred to in paragraph 10 are satan's political system and the united nations.).
10 did you notice something else about the beast?
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Here is an excerpt from the study article entitled "Peace, Security and the 'Image of the Beast'" in the October 1, 1985 issue of The Watchtower. (Note: the organizations referred to in paragraph 10 are Satan's political system and the United Nations.)
The Rider of the Beast
10 Did you notice something else about the beast? There was a "woman" riding it. She is identified as the worldwide empire of false religion, "Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth." (Revelation 17:3-5, 15) Have the world's religions 'ridden' both organizations, trying to guide their course? Yes, particularly the religions of Christendom.
11 For example, Dutch correspondent Pierre van Paassen described the "something akin to religious enthusiasm" of the representatives of the Protestant churches of America, Britain, and the Scandinavian countries who attended sessions of the League of Nations. In 1945 the Federal Council of the Churches of Christ in America declared: "We are determined to work for the continued expansion of the curative and creative functions of the United Nations Organization." In 1965 Pope Paul VI declared that he saw in the organization "the reflection of the loving and transcendent design of God for the progress of the human family on earth-a reflection in which We see the message of the Gospel which is heavenly become earthly." Indeed, religious leaders have made that organization "full of blasphemous names."-Revelation 17:3; compare Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14.
No Force for Peace
12 The United Nations does not enjoy good relations with God's Kingdom. In fact, its supporters oppose that Kingdom. The angel told John: "[The ten horns] will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him will do so." (Revelation 17:14) True to the prophecy, the nations have persistently 'battled with the Lamb' throughout this time of the end, opposing and persecuting those who act as ambassadors of his Kingdom. The Lamb, though, is unconquerable, and so are his servants on earth who continue preaching the good news of God's Kingdom despite bannings, imprisonments, and even death.-Matthew 10:16-18; John 16:33; 1 John 5:4.
13 In truth, the United Nations could never be a force for real peace. Its rider, "Babylon the Great," is one of the most wicked war makers in history, and she is "drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus." (Revelation 17:6) The wars of the nations who support that organization have soaked the earth in blood. (Matthew 24:6, 7) And the power behind them, Satan the Devil, "the great dragon," is no peacemaker. (Revelation 12:9, 17; 13:2) Mankind will never enjoy security as long as these entities exist. They will have to be removed.
Questions
Paragraph 10: Did the Watchtower Society "ride" and "try to guide the course" of the United Nations by voluntarily seeking associate NGO status with it in 1991?
Answer: Yes, according to the Witnesses who claim that association was sought to further human rights and the preaching work.
Paragraph 11: Has the Watchtower Society made numerous positive statements about the role and function of the United Nations in its publications, particularly Awake! magazine, since 1991 in compliance with the requirement that associated NGOs "mobilize support" for the United Nations and its goals?
Answer: Yes. Read those old magazines.
Paragraph 12: If the "United Nations does not enjoy good relations with God's Kingdom," why would it permit the Watchtower Society, the legal corporation employed by the "faithful and discreet slave" to preach the Kingdom message, to obtain associate NGO status with it for some ten years?
Answer: Apparently neither the scarlet-colored wild beast nor the aspiring harlot are too picky about whom they get in bed with.
Paragraph 13: If the "United Nations could never be a force for real peace," why did the Watchtower Society voluntarily seek associate NGO status with it?
Answer: Probably money, when you get right down to the root of it.
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Reasons for Leaving JWs/Fatal Flaw
by patio34 ini ran across this in "river out of eden" by richard dawkins (pgs 131-132) yesterday and it accurately sums up why i left jws 9 months ago and, essentially, belief in a creator:.
re dna survivial: 'when the utility function-that which is being maximized--is dna survival, this is not a recipe for happiness.
so long as dna is passed on, it does not matter who or what gets hurt in the process.
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I think I recall the '83 Awake Alan is referring to. There was a picture of a gorilla and it pointed out that gorillas were vegetarians despite having large fangs, which I found somehow reassuring at the time.
Most Witnesses with questions who wish to remain Witnesses are happy to see that the Society has provided some answer to what they're worrying about. It's not so important to them whether the answer is a good one or not. The mere fact of the answer's existence is what counts.
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Red Flag Apostate Phrases for JWs
by comment ini remember that when i was a witness, seeing certain phrases would trigger the response: "aha, this must be from an apostate!".
those words and phrases included:.
"the watchtower society"--because the brothers would usually just call it "the society" and because this was, of course, merely a legal instrument the brothers used to advance the preaching work.. "the governing body"--because despite the power they may wield, the governing body does stay in the background personality-wise most of the time and has done so pretty much since the days of knorr; therefore, i regarded any attempts to point to them as personally important as suspicious (and can recall being charmed in an odd way a few years ago when a brother giving a public talk was unable to recall the name of the society's current president).. "the rank and file"--obviously this was insulting because jehovah's witnesses have no clergy-laity division!
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Thanks for the heads-up on "rank and file," dungbeetle! I was kind of surprised to see it in the publications. Obviously they haven't used it very much...still, how about that!
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Red Flag Apostate Phrases for JWs
by comment ini remember that when i was a witness, seeing certain phrases would trigger the response: "aha, this must be from an apostate!".
those words and phrases included:.
"the watchtower society"--because the brothers would usually just call it "the society" and because this was, of course, merely a legal instrument the brothers used to advance the preaching work.. "the governing body"--because despite the power they may wield, the governing body does stay in the background personality-wise most of the time and has done so pretty much since the days of knorr; therefore, i regarded any attempts to point to them as personally important as suspicious (and can recall being charmed in an odd way a few years ago when a brother giving a public talk was unable to recall the name of the society's current president).. "the rank and file"--obviously this was insulting because jehovah's witnesses have no clergy-laity division!
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I remember that when I was a Witness, seeing certain phrases would trigger the response: "Aha, this must be from an apostate!"
Those words and phrases included:
"The Watchtower Society"--because the brothers would usually just call it "the Society" and because this was, of course, merely a legal instrument the brothers used to advance the preaching work.
"The Governing Body"--because despite the power they may wield, the Governing Body does stay in the background personality-wise most of the time and has done so pretty much since the days of Knorr; therefore, I regarded any attempts to point to them as personally important as suspicious (and can recall being charmed in an odd way a few years ago when a brother giving a public talk was unable to recall the name of the Society's current President).
"The rank and file"--obviously this was insulting because Jehovah's Witnesses have no clergy-laity division! (By the way, who was the first "apostate" to start using this term?)
Can you think of other phrases that would send up red flags for a Jehovah's Witness? Be honest.
Those writing letters to their families and friend on whatever Witness-related subjects might want to bear this in mind.
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I need UN help FAST.
by Parliament inhey all.
stop by to drop of a copy of the watchtower, and i asked him if i could ask him a question.
i asked him about the witnesses being part of the un.
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Write an email inquiring about the matter to the Department of Public Information at the UN:
They will send you the same response they send everyone who asks about the Society's status, confirming that the Society did voluntarily seek associate NGO status until it was disassociated this month.
It's an excellent and quick way to verify.
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Lefty/YK & Any Other JW's - ???
by pettygrudger ini'm extremely confused by the answers in some of your posts.
you keep refering to "new light" and have also explained why the wtbts has made errors along the way, even though it has caused the "stumbling" of thousands.
your logic makes sense except for 1 questions that continues to go through my mind.. although all of god's messengers, apostles, disciples, etc.
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Lefty,
You said:
You have a lot of fun on this forum, don't you comment. Are you sure that those distrubing sensations that you're having aren't merely the pangs of constipation? Seriously, you haven't any justification for making a statement such as you just did. The WTS IS concerned with the "truth", otherwise it would take the easy way out and salute the flag like most other churches do.
My response:
If the WTS was concerned with the truth as its FIRST PRIORITY, individuals within the congregation would feel free to hold and discuss with others their own ideas.
Imagine a member of the congregation who said in 1980: "The generation referred to in Jesus' in Matthew 24 is not the generation of 1914, but the entire mass of wicked humanity who perceive the sign of Christ's presence but fail to respond appropriately."
What would have happened to that person if he told others in the congregation about his sincere belief and provided the same "Scriptural support" for the belief that the Society now insists all must accept as of 1995?
Answer: He would have been disfellowshipped.
However, if we are to accept the Society's reasoning, that belief was JUST AS TRUE in 1980 as it is today.
Therefore, the Society *is* more concerned with its enforced "unity" than with truth. I could cite plenty of other examples.
Your example about the flag falls apart when you consider that the Society doesn't adopt the same hard line toward the wearing of wedding rings, yet another object of pagan origin. The Society has its own selective notion of purity.
And why are wedding rings acceptable, while flag saluting, birthday parties and mistletoe wreaths are unacceptable? Probably, if you dug deep enough, it's because the wife of some Governing Body member said: "Oh, what a shame it would be if we couldn't wear our pretty wedding rings!"
You said:
quote]Meanwhile, when other churches make "adjustments" (what a nice euphemism!), it's an indication that they are part of false religion.[/quote]
Do YOU even know what you are talking about? Can you site an example to prove it?
My response:
Yes, I do. I suggest you read the April 22, 1970 issue of Awake!, starting with the article "Changes that Disturb People." This issue goes on at length about how shocking it is that the Catholic Church has changed its outlook on eating meat on Friday, the worship of saints, clerical celibacy and so on.
Here are a couple of crucial paragraphs:
One of the reasons is that people are disturbed by what is happening in their churches. Yes, millions of persons have been shocked to learn that things they were taught as being vital for salvation are now considered by their church to be wrong. Have you, too, felt discouragement, or even despair, because of what is happening in your church? A businessman in Medellín, Colombia, expressed the effect the changes have had on many.
"Tell me," he asked, "how can I have confidence in anything? How can I believe in the Bible, in God, or have faith? Just ten years ago we Catholics had the absolute truth, we put all our faith in this. Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more, but we are to believe 'new things.' How do I know the 'new things' will be the truth in five years?"
Good question, O Anonymous Colombian Businessman! Jehovah's Witnesses might well say: "Just ten years ago we Witnesses had the absolute truth, we put all our faith in the notions that the generation of 1914 would not die out before the end of the system of things, that alternative service was unacceptable, that taking hemoglobin was unacceptable, and on and on."
(And if you want to argue that these beliefs were not so strongly held, why would congregation members be disfellowshipped for not adhering to them, except to maintain that enforced "unity"?)
In fact, adhering to these beliefs would have a FAR GREATER impact on a Witness's life than the Catholic beliefs I cited above.
So, when such important beliefs are changed, I ask: "How can I have confidence in anything?"
The Society is infantile in its unwillingness to accept the same criticism it inflicts upon other religions.
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Lefty/YK & Any Other JW's - ???
by pettygrudger ini'm extremely confused by the answers in some of your posts.
you keep refering to "new light" and have also explained why the wtbts has made errors along the way, even though it has caused the "stumbling" of thousands.
your logic makes sense except for 1 questions that continues to go through my mind.. although all of god's messengers, apostles, disciples, etc.
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I am disturbed that Jehovah's Witnesses refer to themselves as having and being in "the truth," and then proceed to place greater value on "unity" than on truth.
"Hey, we may be all be wrong, but we're all wrong TOGETHER!"
Meanwhile, when other churches make "adjustments" (what a nice euphemism!), it's an indication that they are part of false religion. And should members of those churches just peacefully allow their churches to go on teaching their doctrines, or should they get out in order to avoid sharing their plagues etc., according to the Society?
It's all pretty embarrassing when you think about it.
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UNITED NATIONS , NGO's and WTBS
by MacHislopp infollowing the link given by kent,.
i have several observation to make:.
(from the link : http://www.un.org/moreinfo/ngolink/brochure.htm).
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# http://www.unitednationsnews.com
This is really worthwhile!
It's dedicated to news stories about the United Nations from wire services and newspapers around the world. I just glanced through it and barely scratched the surface. You can find both the Guardian stories in there just by searching for "Jehovah's Witnesses." I'm sure that as more stories come out, you'll be able to find them here.
It's powered by a parent site called WorldNews.com and would be a great resource for anyone searching for news stories on *any* topic.
A definite bookmark.
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