yaddayadda

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Posts by yaddayadda

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  3

  When do the 'new heavens' at 2 Peter 3: 13 begin? Society twisting it

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  quote from a 1993 watchtower article: .

  *** w93 1/1 9 rejoicing in our grand creator *** .

  "2 we can rejoice, however, that our grand creator has the permanent solution.

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  yaddayadda

  Quote from a 1993 Watchtower article:
  
  *** w93 1/1 9 Rejoicing in Our Grand Creator ***
  "2 We can rejoice, however, that our Grand Creator has the permanent solution. In Jesus’ prophecy “the conclusion of the system of things” is linked with his invisible “presence.” (Matthew 24:3, 37-39) To create the “new heavens,” Jehovah placed Jesus on his throne as Messianic King, the prophetic evidence showing that this historic event took place in the heavens in the year 1914. (2 Peter 3:13) As associate ruler with the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, Jesus is now commissioned to judge the nations and to separate the meek, sheeplike people of earth from obstinate goatlike ones. The ungodly “goats” are marked for “everlasting cutting-off” and “the sheep” for everlasting life in the earthly realm of the Kingdom.—Matthew 25:31-34, 46."
  
  Notice the article says that Jesus was installed as king in 1914 'To create the "new heavens" '. Yet, reading the entire chapter of 2 Peter 3, it is clear that the 'new heavens and new earth' only come into being AFTER the old heavens dissolving at Jehovah's day! There is no hint of the 'new heavens' being created before 'Jehovah's day'. This is made clear in the following Watchtower quote:
  
  *** w98 4/15 13 Faith and Your Future ***
  "19 Jehovah’s Witnesses put their faith in the Kingdom of God. It is the “new heavens” that the apostle Peter wrote about: “There are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.” (2 Peter 3:13) The “new earth” is the new human society that will be governed by the new heavens, God’s Kingdom. This is the arrangement God revealed in a vision to the apostle John, who wrote: “I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away . . . And [God] will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”—Revelation 21:1, 4."
  
  Notice that the apostle John said that 'the former heaven and the former earth had passed away' BEFORE he saw the 'new heaven and..new earth'!
  
  The Watchtower often contradicts itself concerning these subtle date-oriented teachings. The following quote from 1999 says that both the 'new heavens' and 'new earth' are developments for the 'near FUTURE', contradicting the earlier quote.
  
  *** w99 7/15 6 Why You Can Trust Bible Prophecy ***
  "Additionally, important Bible prophecies await fulfillment in the near future. Describing what lies ahead, the apostle Peter wrote: “There are new heavens [the heavenly Messianic Kingdom] and a new earth [a righteous human society] that we are awaiting according to [God’s] promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.”—2 Peter 3:13."
  
  Similarly, this Watchtower quote says that the 'new heaven and new earth' described in Revelation 21 (obviously referring to the same new heaven and new earth as 2 Peter 3:13) are FUTURE events:
  
  *** w99 12/1 19 Be Happy Readers of the Book of Revelation ***
  "16 Happy readers of the book of Revelation can only thrill with joy as they read the closing chapters that describe our glorious hope—a new heaven and a new earth, that is, a righteous heavenly Kingdom government ruling over a new, cleansed human society, all to the praise of “Jehovah God the Almighty.” (Revelation 21:22)"
  
  Also, if the new heavens began in 1914, then to be consistent so must the 'new earth' have begun then. Yet how can that be if the Society now teaches that the sheep are not separated from the goats and the great crowd does not form until the great tribulation? Despite this, the Society implies that the 'new earth' is already operating in a structured, organised gathering of people (via the JW organisation), only not presently 'in its fullness':
  
  *** w99 3/1 18 "The Temple" and "the Chieftain" Today ***
  22 Finally, what does the city in the vision represent? It is no heavenly city, for it lies in the midst of “profane” (nonsacred) land. (Ezekiel 48:15-17) So it must be something earthly. Well, what is a city? Does it not convey the idea of people coming together as a group and forming something structured and organized? Yes. Hence, the city appears to picture the earthly administration that benefits all who will make up the righteous earthly society. It will operate in its fullness in the coming “new earth.” (2 Peter 3:13)
  
  The Watchtower Society's claim that the 'new heavens' began in 1914 is a clear twisting of 2 Peter 3:13 and Revelation 21:1 and is just another example of the self-contradictory mishmash of error they have twisted to conform to their ridiculous 1914 creed. Clearly, the 'new heavens and...new earth' are both entirely FUTURE events. How ironic that just a few verses later (v. 16) the apostle Peter warned about those who would 'twist' the scriptures, to their own destruction.
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  26

  Education gets yet another bashing!!

  by Gill in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  education takes yet another battering in the may 1st watchtower.. the mag gives this example:.

  young christians today face similar challeges.

  matthew, who serves at a branch office of jehovah's witnesses recalls: 'when i began serving as a pioneer, my father was extremely disappointed.

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  yaddayadda

  Think of all the potential converts at University! Young, idealistic, open minds. Why doesn't the Society encourage young JW's to go to University and set up a bible study group or something. There are heaps of Christian denoms that do this.
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  86

  "Watchtower" is a term from witchcraft NOT Scripture

  by FuzzyPaul in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  has anyone else ever noticed that there is no watchtower in scripture as part of any particular teaching but there is prominent use of watchtower in dungeons and dragons type games and forms of witchcraft including spells involving watchtower?

  see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watchtower_%28magic%29.

  and msn search for watchtower alone & with magic spell or occult or witchcraft.. ct russell was a 33rd degree freemason ( illuminati) nutcase who read books by guys that measured the lengths of the halls in pyramids to foretell the future by.

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  yaddayadda

  So there is no 'direct' evidence that he was a Freemason yet he is buried under a giant pyramid on the grounds of the Pittsburg Masons. Go figure.
  
  Always amuses me when posters who are so quick to ascribe just about every conceivable deliberate mind-control and lying tactic to the Society in the next breath mock those who say there is subliminal artwork in the publications. Although much of the alleged subliminal messages are indeed the result an 'overactive imagination', without a doubt there are some glaringly clear examples of 'subliminal' artwork. A few of them are so obvious they are hardly even 'subliminal'.
  
  "CTR has absolutely nothing to do with JWs. He was not a JW. There is no line of descent from CTR to JFR. Rutherford stole CTR's organization. If CTR was involved in the occult it is meaningless for JWs."
  
  WTF?? Russell started the Watchtower magazine and founded the Watchtower Society and the JW's teach the same core doctrines he originally taught, including the 1914 chronology, which many posters say is the JW's prime doctrine. CTR's background is hardly 'meaningless' for JW's.
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  35

  Did you see anything Strange at the Memorial- if you went???

  by Mad in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i want to see if i imagined it!.

  mad.

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  yaddayadda

  Don't you hate it when people start a thread like this and then bugger off to leave everyone in suspense....
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  4

  My Jouney-A "Theocratic Career" Begins

  by truthsetsonefree in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/129473/1.ashx.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/129553/1.ashx.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/129647/1.ashx.

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  yaddayadda

  Thanks for sharing your experiences.
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  22

  The great debate

  by darth frosty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  coming up, i remember how the jw heavies would brag how back in the day (the 30's and 40's) witnesses would have debates against various religous leaders on matters of faith.

  they claimed the reasons the debates ceased, was they used to whip the religious leaders so bad, it became pointless.

  as we all know today, witlesses want no part of an earnest deabate with any one.

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  yaddayadda

  I'll take any former District Overseers (if any, failing which former prominent CO's will do) who still consider themselves Christian. Better still, is Ray Franz an official member on here? (most probably not)
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  21

  rantings on jw fellowship board

  by gspradling in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ed-->some thrilling experiences that just goes to show jehovah knows:

  does jehovah know what is going on, and does he help?

  1. the bomb planted in the kingdom hall in australia, where one brother was killed, was meant to kill everyone, and would have; but the bomb rolled backwards so the force or the blast was away from the friends, rather than aimed at them

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  yaddayadda

  Whats the address for this board?...I might join and see how long I can play brinkmanship before I'm booted. Should be fun.
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  16

  Two Elders at the door today; I wonder what they want?

  by MinisterAmos in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i partook last night at my new congo and get the two elder visit today from my former congo.

  actually it still might be my current one as jehovah is in the process of "re-arranging" the bros. and i'm pretty sure the change is not yet "official".

  i didn't answer the door and already left orders at the gate that no freaking jws are to be admitted under any circumstances unless the homeowner specifically requests so.. anyone want to guess why they need me?

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  yaddayadda

  They want to read you 1 Corinthians 11:27
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  21

  THE GOD WHO WASN'T THERE

  by FireNBandits in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ex-christian fundamentalist brian fleming shines an unflinching spotlight on christianity and the supposed historical existence of jesus christ, demonstarting that no such man ever existed in history.

  rather, the earliest forms of christianity, just as the mystery religions, believed in a spiritual christ--the logos an emanation of god that is the divine reason in man and nature--and a spiritual death and resurrection of the spiritual logos.

  the evidence, the logic, and the compelling arguments are simply too much for fundamentalists, so please protect your mind and faith from this video at all costs if you're a fundamentalist.

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  yaddayadda

  Any documentary that asserts that Jesus was never a historical figure is about as hopelessly biased as a raving evangelist telling you that you'll burn in hell for not believing.
  
  There is hardly a single reputable scholar or historian who denies that Jesus was a real person, whatever you make of the new testament.
  
  "The evidence, the logic, and the compelling arguments are simply too much for fundamentalists, so please protect your mind and faith from this video at all costs if you're a fundamentalist."
  
  Really? Don't make me laugh.
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  33

  Latest Gospel scholarship supports the reliability of the oral tradition!

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  another eminent new testament scholar has come out and declared that traditional form criticism is now obsolete.

  richard bauckhams 2006 book jesus and the eyewitnesses the gospels as eyewitness testimony is the latest in the recent trend of contemporary british gospel scholarship to re-examine many long-held assumptions about the oral tradition behind the gospels which is coming up with some rather startling conclusions.

  jesus remembered, grand rapids; eerdmans.

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  yaddayadda

  Excellent resource:
  
  http://www.christian-thinktank.com/stilltoc.html