yaddayadda

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Posts by yaddayadda

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  25

  Shunning Policy

  by sweet pea in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a little bird told me that some members of the governing body are unhappy with the shunning policy and want it changed (presumably due to the bad press from sites like these).

  apparently they were overruled.

  is this yet another policy that will start to be diluted and eventually dropped altogether or what and can anyone back up the rumour?

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  yaddayadda

  Sweetpea - this is a very interesting rumour. Can you shed more light on this 'little bird'? Was it someone at Watchtower headquarters?
  
  If your source is correct then this would be significant news, particularly as it shows there seems to be some polarisation/camps forming on the GB on this issue (and perhaps others).
  
  It's a shame that the rank and file do not learn about these kinds of decisions made by the GB. Even learning that some GB members would like a change to this awful policy would be a comfort to some. If this rumour is true it would give hope to many thousands of ex-JW's and their families who have endured intolerable emotional suffering through the Society's nefarious shunning policy.
  
  Tis a pity it got voted down, no doubt by hardline traditionalists like Jaracz, Barr, etc. The sooner those dinosaurs are off the scene the better! Wouldn't it be great if the newer GB members staged a coup to dump the deadweight that is obviously holding the organisation back. Fat change though.
  
  Highlander, sorry to hear that your family has begun to shun you. It really makes me sick to my heart that JW's shun family members just because they respectfully dissent from some teachings of the WTS.
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  16

  Question about 144,000-- heaven at death?

  by whyizit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as many of you know, i am not a jw, nor have i ever been.

  but i do have lots of questions.

  perhaps there is an active jw out there that might be interested in answering this question for me.

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  yaddayadda

  The anointed are resurrected. The Christian hope is resurrection, not inherent soul transportion. Resurrection is a deliberate act by God/Christ, not an automatic happening. The bible is quite clear that the 'soul' does not survive death. The dubs have that much right.
  
  However, they are pretty screwed up on the timing of the resurrection to heaven. They believe it started around 1919 or so, shortly after Jesus' parousia supposedly began in 1914. It is obvious, however, that the scriptures teach that no one is resurrected to heaven until Jesus returns in the future, during the last trumpet.
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  26

  Chance that WT drops blood issue?

  by Gayle in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do you think wt will drop blood tranfusion issue altogether?

  will it, say within ten years?

  any predictions?

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  yaddayadda

  Not quite. They will tweak it. They will change it to say that the prohibition now only applies to ADULT, BAPTIZED witnesses, no longer to babies, children, or anyone who is not baptized.
  
  They will say that God's law on blood only pertains to those who have come to an accurate knowledge of truth and have dedicated their life to Jehovah through baptism, with full understanding of what that entails. That obviously does not apply to babies, young children, and young teens. This will be seen as a reasonable, scriptural compromise.
  
  The Society is not worried about lawsuits because rights for adults and 'mature minors' to refuse this medical treatment are well established in the Supreme Court. Their only concern is the increasing public and media exposes against abuse of children in the name of religion. The Society's spiritual blackmailing of parents into allowing their babies and children to die because of want of a blood transfusion is utterly unchristian and morally wrong. The media are on to these religious abuses and the courts are under increasing pressure to tighten up on it.
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  27

  Will JWs leave the org because of accelerated doctrine change?

  by cultswatter in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  looks like the wts is morphing into a totally diferent religion.

  they are trying to get new converts any way they can at the same time they are trying to patch previous doctrine in an attempt to give the illusion of true prophecy.. hey wts, no matter what you do it won't work.

  the 1914 date is pure fiction, so is 1918/19.

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  yaddayadda

  Contrary to what some listees imagine, doctrinally the organisaton today still bears a remarkable resemblance to the one that Russell started. It still holds to all of Russell's core doctrines that depart noticeably from broader Christendom.
  
  The only changes to doctrine that would cause JW's to leave in mass numbers would be a change to any of the following. A change to any of these would signal to many JW's that the Watchtower Society has become 'apostate':
  
  1 God is not a trinity
  2 The soul is not immortal (the dead are not presently alive somewhere else)
  3 There are two hopes for saved mankind - a heavenly hope and an earthly hope.
  
  The Watchtower Society could change pretty much any other doctrine besides these 3 and only a small minority would leave.
  
  This is the real concept that keeps JW's enslaved to the Watchtower Society: the enigma of how the organisation teaches these three core doctrines that are scripturally correct and yet are not found in broader Christendom, yet these scriptural truths are surrounded by a whole steaming pile of organisational crap, dubious creeds and harmful policies. In other words, the baby is beautiful but she sits in filthy bathwater.
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  15

  Does anyone else see a pattern?

  by TD in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it seems to me that a repeating pattern with jw's is unfolding yet again.

  i wonder if anybody else can "see" the same thing, or am i just imaginiing things?.

  here's the scenario:.

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  yaddayadda

  No, I havn't noticed that particular trend. A very interesting topic though.
  
  Somewhat contrary to your theory, I have noticed that when any new GB member comes on board or a new President is appointed, the appointments are usually followed by some 'new light' or minor changes that reflect a general softening in interpretation or policy (eg, shortly after Franz's death the 'generation' and 'sheep and goats' interpretations were changed). This indicates that the GB has dominant personalities who cling to pet interpretations and when those die there is some accommodation to any fresh insights held by the new members.
  
  Along these lines, something that may be significant is the large gap in the date of appointment between the two most senior members of the GB, John Barr and Theodore Jaracz, and the rest of them. There is nearly a 30 year gap between the appointments to the GB of John Barr (who is 94 now and cannot have too much longer to live) and Theodore Jaracz (who is 83 and has recently had a heart attack) and the rest of them. Gerrit Losch is the next appointee and he was appointed in 1994.
  
  Here are the dates of birth and dates of appointment to the GB of the current GB members(a new appointment may be pending following Carey Barber's recent demise - it seems they like a minimum of 10 GB members):
  
  John Edwin Barr 1913, 1977
  Theodore Jaracz 1925, 1974
  Gerrit Lösch 1942 July 1, 1994
  Guy H. Pierce 1935 Oct 1, 1999
  Samuel F. Herd 1935 Oct 1, 1999
  David H. Splane 1944 Oct 1, 1999
  M. Stephen Lett 1949 Oct 1, 1999
  Anthony Morris III 1950 Sep 1, 2005
  Geoffrey W. Jackson 1955 Sep 1, 2005
  
  Notice the LARGE gap between Barr and Jaracz's appointments in 1977 and 1974 respectively and the rest of them. The next oldest appointment is in 1994. And all the rest were appointed less than 10 years ago. There also appears to be a bit of a generation gap between Barr, Jaracz, and the rest of them (but not so much Pierce and Herd). These could well be telling factors when Barr and Jaracz die.
  
  Everyone knows that Jaracz is the kingpin at the moment. John Barr appears to also be a very dominant figure because of his seniority and the fact that he evidently still has all faculties and is still active. Historically we know that the GB tends to be dominated by one or two strong personalities and the rest of the GB more or less revolve around them. Ray Franz noted that some GB members would always vote according to how a certain dominant personality voted. It is my suspicion that Jaracz and Barr could be those dominant figures who are insistent on keeping the status quo and are preventing some of the more contentious creeds from being revisited (eg, blood doctrine, child molestation policy, shunning of family members), something that is desperately needed. When these two finally die off there could well be some flashes of 'new light' adopted soon after. Rather than reflecting a hardening of doctrine, as you suggest, these changes are likely to be towards a less rigid stance (its hard to imagine the current position being any more rigid and legalistic).
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  14

  Putting The Kingdom First.....

  by Sunspot in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if i had a dollar for all the times i heard this----*i* would be basking in a multimillion $$$ estate in the bahamas.

  every jw was told this over and over at every meeting and convention the wts had the doors open for.

  what i didn't realize was that jesus words were being twisted yet again by the men who write for the watchtower, as they continually shouted this into their loyal and obedient (tm) followers ears.. yes....jesus said for his followers to put his kingdom first in our lives......he didn't say to put the watchtower first in your lives!!!

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  yaddayadda

  This is one area where JW's differ little from a lot of other churches who believe that the kingdom is more or less represented by the church. They all believe that making converts is increasing the kingdom.
  
  The only difference is that JW's are converted to an organisation (that claims to represent Jehovah), whereas, the other churches convert to Christ.
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  78

  Report on Todays special talk

  by stillajwexelder in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ok - so special talk today - you can feel safe in a troubled world.

  15 minutes devoted to to how bad things are.

  iraq and usa were headlined and 1914 was mentioned > 20 times.

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  yaddayadda

  "Forget about 2014, but the end is still coming within 120 years of
  1914 (or so, we never actually said it)."
  
  Exactly. The Society will never specifically point to 2034 but they will undoubtedly increasingly point to this supposed 120 year period parallel between Noah's time and 1914 to keep the rank and file in the 'ark'. It will gradually take hold in the JW's minds in the same way that the 'generation' parallel did (before it was dumped in 1995). Expect an increased emphasis on this supposed parallel to kick in after 2014.
  
  They will say the end could come ANY TIME WITHIN this 120 year period. Putting it that way is how they will stop people leaving before 2034.
  
  This is why the Society won't change the 1914 teaching at least before 2034. It is a good bet that some of the Governing Body, perhaps most, secretly hold to this 120 parallel belief. Believe me, they will pull this final chronological rabbit out of the hat when the publisher numbers really begin to dive some time soon after 2014.
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  61

  Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

  by ANewLeif in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

  (acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

  christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

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  yaddayadda

  Nonsense. Anyone that confesses faith in Jesus Christ, believes that he is their personal saviour and redeemer and obeys his commandments is a Christian.
  
  Who did Jesus put the focus on over and over and over again? Who did Jesus say he got EVERYTHING from..all that he taught...all authority...evertyhing. He got it from his Heavenly Father Yahweh/Jehovah.
  
  Your list is completely selective. We could add a lot of things that most Christians do not do that is a major departure from scripture, eg:
  
  Do most Christians worship the Father like Jesus did, or do they almost exclusively worship Jesus?
  
  Did Jesus instruct his disciples to pray to anyone other than the Father?
  
  Do most Christians believe they have an immortal soul. How many believe that evildoers will roast in a burning hell forever. These doctrines are clearly not biblical at all, yet most Christians believe them.
  
  Those in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones when it comes to doctrine.
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  11

  "her sins have massed together clear up to heaven"

  by proplog2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  americans live in a dream world about the history of their country.. they just can't see the usa as the treacherous "harlot" in revelation.

  how can it be said of the usa that "in her was found the blood of prophets, and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth"_rev 18:24. certainly you can't say in a literal sense that the usa is responsible for "all those who have been slaughtered on the earth" any more than you could say that of ancient babylon - "at babylon the slain ones of all the earth have fallen".

  _jeremiah 51:49. the blood-guilt of both ancient babylon and babylon the great is expressed as hyperbole - exageration for emphasis.. but, isn't the usa the most peace loving nation on earth?.

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  yaddayadda

  Hows this:
  
  Babylon the Great is the powerful Freemasons/Illuminati with their long term goal of ushering in a secular 'one world government'. They have infiltrated all major political, religious and commercial institutions (including the Watchtower Society). They are quasi religious/spiritistic.
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  34

  Difficult to build faith up at church after leaving WTS

  by White Dove in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how many of you who decided to remain christian and started to go to church had a hard time building your faith back up again after leaving the wts?

  i'm having a hard time.

  it's been 4 months since i began attending the penticostal assembly of god church in my town, and i love it.

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  yaddayadda

  It all depends on what exactly you have lost your faith in.
  
  Have you lost your belief in a personal God? Have you lost your belief in the Bible as the word of God? Have you lost your belief in Jesus, ie, you no longer trust the gospels as historical, trusthworthy documents? Or have you just lost your faith in organised religion?
  
  Depending on what level your faith has diminished, the task for you then is to go hunt out all the many resources available in books and on the internet that can help you restore your faith in whatever you have lost your faith in. It will take some digging and mental effort but it is worth it.
  
  After leaving the JW's I did exactly this. I was troubled by scepticism about nearly everything (except that I never doubted there is a God), but I persevered in my research and have now found a solid platform for my faith. I've found there is considerable evidence for taking what is really just a small step to having faith as a Christian; it is not a giant leap of incredulity.
  
  I am happy to provide you with some sources if you send me a PM.
  
  Regards
  Yadda