Is this a thread to prove JW's are a cult, or to expose the evil of their shunning policy? Presumably the latter judging by all the quotes you've superbly unearthed and since we have had umpteen threads lately on whether or not JW's are a 'cult'.
There is no doubt that the congregation is quite within their right to distance themselves from a brother or sister who is wilfully practicing gross sin. That's what 1 Cor 5 is all about. However, the Watchtower Society's policy of disfellowshipping for relatively trivial things, such as smoking or respectfully disagreeing with certain Watchtower interpretations, goes far beyond the scriptural grounds outlined in 1 Cor 5. The Watchtower leaders are accountable to God for having stumbled so many persons through their extreme tand pharasaical application of 1 Cor 5.
Even if a person is 'disfellowshipped' scripturally under 1 Cor 5, that still does not justify total shunning. The Society's policy is flawed scripturally: the Greek word 'sunanamignumi' at 1 Cor 5: 9-13 which the NWT translates as 'quit mixing in company with' has the meaning of 'intimate association' and 'close association, as with a friend' (according to Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the NT, p 601). This is in contrast with the Greek word 'mita' which Strong's Exhaustive Concordance says denotes "accompaniment; amid (local or casual) - general association". So what Paul was stating was that the congregation should not have intimate, close association with the evildoer, as indicated by not 'eating with them' in a social setting. Paul was NOT forbidding general, casual association. Saying a greeting and a few friendly, encouraging words to a disfellowshipped person is hardly 'intimate..close' association.
To really drive this point home, notice that at 2 Thessalonians 3:14, 15 the counsel is given to 'stop associating' (sunanamignumi) with anyone not obedient to the word. These scriptures are the basis of the Society's 'marking' policy - ie, the person is to be kept somewhat at arms length but is to be encouraged, not shunned. Note that Paul explicitly states "And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother". Yet it is the exact same Greek word used in 1 Cor 5! So the Society is being grossly inconsistent with its treatment of sunanamignumi. Quite simply, both the 'marked' person and the 'disfellowshipped' person should be treated exactly the same way! The correct practice in both cases should be as per the April 15, 1985 Watchtower, p.31 (on 'marking'), which says:
"Brothers would not completely shun him, for Paul advised them 'to continue admonishing him as a brother.' Yet, by limiting their fellowship with him, they might lead him to become ashamed and perhaps awaken him to the need to conform to Bible principles".
No wonder some on the GB reportedly want a change in the shunning policy. The current extreme position is not only scripturally flawed but flouts God's law of love. It is in stark contrast to Jesus command to love our enemies and that God expects us to practice the higher qualities at the expense of rigid conformity to nitpicking. The Watchtower leaders certainly are gulping down the camel on this policy and we know what Jesus had to say about pompous religious leaders who prize legalism more than love, justice, mercy.
yaddayadda
JoinedPosts by yaddayadda
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Are Jehovah's Witnesses a Dangerous Cult?
by UnDisfellowshipped in" (quote from the watchtower, august 1st, 2001, page 14).
(quote from the watchtower, december 1st, 1981 issue, page 27).
(quote from the watchtower, december 1st, 1990 issue, page 19).
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yaddayadda
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2007 District Convention to hammer apostates?
by yaddayadda inthis years "follow the christ" dc looks like it is going to be focused on avoiding all those evil apostates and their falsehoods, judging by some of the dc talks listed on the back of the june 2007 awake!
do not follow false teachers .
do not follow false stories .
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yaddayadda
This years "Follow the Christ" DC looks like it is going to be focused on avoiding all those evil apostates and their falsehoods, judging by some of the DC talks listed on the back of the June 2007 Awake!:
Do Not Follow False Teachers
Do Not Follow False Stories
Keep Following The Lamb Wherever He Goes
My Sheep Listen To My Voice ... and They Follow Me
Help Them Return To The Flock
Can't wait. -
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What "Common Denominator" do most JW's have?
by JH indo you think that there is a common denominator, or are they all different people who found what they call "the truth"?.
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yaddayadda
They all believe their eternal future and happiness depends entirely on their loyalty to the organisation.
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Shunning Policy
by sweet pea ina little bird told me that some members of the governing body are unhappy with the shunning policy and want it changed (presumably due to the bad press from sites like these).
apparently they were overruled.
is this yet another policy that will start to be diluted and eventually dropped altogether or what and can anyone back up the rumour?
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yaddayadda
Mary, the GB doesn't just change things because of pressure from the Courts. And they are not totally motivated by dollars and cents. Your uber-cynicism isn't totally realistic. They are not Microsoft's Corporate Board, they are a body of men who believe that they are a 'slave class' that Jesus has entrusted his spiritual talents to and that they have a responsibility to increase those talents, come hell or high water. Money is a way of doing that - it is not the be all and end all of their existence.
In the past we have seen fairly substantial tweakings of doctrine without any of these 'Corporate' factors being apparent. If everything they do hinges on the Courts or money then why on earth do some GB members apparently want a change right now, assuming the rumour is true?
Where did you hear this rumour from Sweatpea? (where has she gone?). How many GB members wanted the change? What was the final vote? Anyway you can find this out?
I'm rather surprised this rumour has received such little attention from the board. -
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Report on Todays special talk
by stillajwexelder inok - so special talk today - you can feel safe in a troubled world.
15 minutes devoted to to how bad things are.
iraq and usa were headlined and 1914 was mentioned > 20 times.
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yaddayadda
The outline probably meant 20 times more devastating earthquakes in terms of human life lost, not seismic activity. They should have made that plain though, perhaps saying "although in terms of seismic activity there is no firm evidence that earthquakes have increased since 1914, the effect of major earthquakes since 1914 has increased dramatically in terms of human life lost." The fact they didn't phrase it more accurately betrays a deliberate disingenuity on their part.
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yaddayadda
ROTFLMAO!! Cracked me up!
More, more!! -
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Question about 144,000-- heaven at death?
by whyizit inas many of you know, i am not a jw, nor have i ever been.
but i do have lots of questions.
perhaps there is an active jw out there that might be interested in answering this question for me.
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yaddayadda
Heathen said: "I've heard their dogma on that and they believe that they will again grow old and die"
That is incorrect. JW's don't teach that in the 'new system' anyone flagrantly wicked will grow old again. They basically just say that they will somehow be killed by God but that the bible doesn't give us any details on how that happens. -
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The Faithful and Discreet Slave is an IDOL
by cultswatter inwhen i was a dub i remember including the fds in my prayers because i did what all the other dubs were doing.
little did i know that i was worshipping and idol.
the fact is the fds does not exist other than in the mind of the brainwashed victim.
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yaddayadda
You have made a very good point. Idolatry is defined as worship of an image, idea or object, as opposed to the worship of the supreme being. The worship need not be explicit or overt; it can be implicit and unwitting. It's nature is insidious. But it's not so much the 'faithful and discreet slave' that is idolised as the Watchtower Society. The FDS is a nebulous entity, comprising 8,500 or so scattered individuals identified solely through their partaking of the memorial emblems. For all other intents and purposes they are completely indistinguishable from the 'great crowd'. The FDS have absolutely no input into what 'food' is dispensed by the Watchtower Society; they simply consume whatever the Watchtower dishes up, no questions asked, just like the 'other sheep' do.
It's more correct to say that JW's are idolising the GB and the organisation itself.
Not to be pedantic, but prayers offered on behalf of a group of fellow believers or to express thanks for what they do (such as the GB) is not idolatry or worship of that group. Instead, idolatry of the Watchtower Society is evident by JW's having given their minds and consciences completely over to the Watchtower idol. They unquestioning accept and submit to the Watchtower's every interpretation, creed and policy. The Watchtower Society flagrantly encourages the idolatry, constantly lauding itself for providing so much spiritual food. The view is that Jesus has abrogated all spiritual authority to the GB. In this the Watchtower Society are acting very much like Moses when he personally claimed to have provided the Israelites with the water from the rock, something Jehovah was very displeased with and punished Moses for. -
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1945
by glenster in1968 "during world war i, god's people expected it to lead directly into ar-.
mageddon, but jehovah prevented such a climax at that time.
we didn't succumb.
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yaddayadda
"By the time the Aug. 15, 1945, issue of the Watchtower was published, Witnesses were told that they could not all currently be regarded as children of God. On page 253 of that issue, it was written: "he is not yet giving the `other sheep' the standing of sons of his, sons of `The everlasting Father' (Isaiah 9:6). But these faithful ones will become such during his thousand-year reign after Armageddon; and now, by virtue of the prospect of eventually becoming Jehovah's perfect sons, they address him prospectively as `Our Father.'"
Wow, I knew that the 'other sheep' weren't considered to be God's son's until they were perfected at the end of the millennial reign, but I didn't know they only address Jehovah as father 'PROSPECTIVELY'! That is a new twist to me.
What a frikken outrage! -
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The WTS: Masters of the GRANFALLOON (propaganda technique)
by M.J. inin honor of the late kurt vonnegut, i would like to introduce / promote a term to watchtower watcher land: granfalloon.
this was a term vonnegut invented in the novel cat's cradle, meaning (in his words) "a proud and meaningless association of human beings".. but the point goes beyond disparaging the "meaning" of certain human "associations".. it turns out that vonnegut touched on a basic human tendency, that an individual's self-concept is largely derived from the social groups he/she perceives his/her self to be a part of.
in other words, our own definition of who we are to a large extent is wrapped up the various social categories we put ourselves into.
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yaddayadda
Very interesting. Yep, Rutherford was clearly a master Grandfalloner. He was the grand Poohbah as well.