Great post. This is a keeper. It was actually this kind of information that enabled me to finally break free from the org without any more guilt. It was the realisation that if this is what Jehovah is really going to do to mankind then I don't want to worship a God like that. I would rather die at Armageddon than worship a God that destroyed 99% of humankind. I don't want to be part of a religion that effectively portrays God as far worse than Hitler, Pol Pot, and Stalin combined. To my mind, God will have failed and Satan will be the victor in such an outcome and the issue of Universal sovereignty is not proven at all. All that will be proven is that might is right, that hate is greater than love, that violence is greater than peace, that revenge is greater than mercy, and that Jehovah is a manslayer of far worse proportions than the devil ever was. (NB - Charles Taze Russell never preached this murderous version of Jehovah.)
yaddayadda
JoinedPosts by yaddayadda
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The final solution to everything
by Norm inthe wtbts has figured out the perfect solution to all of mankinds problems.. they mainly use the awake!
magazine to tell us about the wonderful future that awaits us.. that magazine will have articles with headlines like:.
homelessness - will it ever end?.
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Do you truly WANT the Watchtower to collapse? If so why?
by nicolaou inthere are the abuses of course, the diabloical 'two witness' rule applied to allegations of molestation, the reckless 'blood ban' in all it's tortuous complexities (which by watchtowers own admission has resulted in many fatalaties) and the cruel punishment of shunning which has caused so much suffering and pain to many of us here.. is it for these reasons that you want to see the watchtower fall or is it simply that you want to see them humiliated and broken for what they've done to you?
most of us aren't bitter or selfish enough to want personal revenge against the watchtower but i'd be lying if i said i didn't sometimes think like that.. the reason for my original question is that i sometimes feel a bit hypocritical.
i try to accord respect to jw's and individuals of all faiths, (yes, even when i go off on one of my atheistic diatriabes) but whereas i allow myself to be hostile to the watchtower i shrink from being so forthright against other 'christian' faiths whose corrosive nature may not be so easily apparent but is there nonetheless.. i guess my question is; why do we want the watchtower to fall but do not wish all religion to fall?.
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yaddayadda
I don't want them to totally collapse (and I don't they they ever will) because I think many of their teachings are true. I would just like to see a whole raft of policy changes made and wrong interpretations dropped.
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The NEW Watchtower t-shirt for ... everyone
by gordon d ini've just completed the design of our new shirt.
this shirt will be perfect for all jw's... active, apostate, or fading!.
for the active jw on the go it reads, "i dont think so!
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yaddayadda
Cool, I'll wear it to my next congregation do.
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I got my "end of false religion" tract
by Junction-Guy inone of my friends at work brought me the tract, she said they left it at her door.
i was so excited to finally read it for myself, i was grinning ear to ear when she handed it to me.. after reading it over i did find one inconsistency---- if you look on the back there is an advertisement for the "pay attention" brochure.
if you look closely at the 2 african women in the pic above, well those women are reading this brochure, if you look close enough you will see it is the same "pay attention" brochure, however there is one minor difference in details.
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yaddayadda
I have the tract too. It is an Australian version. It has an advertisement for the 'Keep on the Watch!' brochure, not the 'pay attention' brochure, but believe it or not it also has an old white guy in the large picture of the brochure, and an old black guy on the back of the brochure being held by the black sisters.
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Apologists--and your perspective of them
by The wanderer in<!-- .style1 {font-family: arial, sans-serif} .style2 {font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; } .style3 {font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: #990000; } --> apologists and your perspective of them every so often on this discussion board an individual who.
is a devout supporter and defender of the watchtower.
society makes there appearance known.
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yaddayadda
I came on this site many years ago under an old user name as more or less an apologist. I wanted to see what gossip was circulating in the underground about the org, cause I was diknew some teachings were wrong in the org, but overall I still saw them as the true religion to be defended. My intention was, in a nutshell, to try and help all the 'apostates' here get a better perspective on the org, as I saw everyone here as having thrown the baby out with the water. I think many apologists fall into this bracket, except for die-hards like 3witness (in total denial).
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Why does this hurt so much?
by lola28 inokay, here it is a few months ago i sent in a letter to da myself, the elders refused to da me ( there is a first time for everything, i guess) and well i just kinda let it go.
over the last month i've come to realize that life is too short to spend it doing something that does not make you happy.
i think that a very small part of me still held on to the idea that it might be the truth, but after giving it a lot of thought i've come to realize that i have not believed in this for a long time.
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yaddayadda
If it causes you a lot of pain, then why do it? Each one to their own, and everyone has their own reasons for d'aing, but shunning is a horrible thing, so why bring it upon yourself? I think being a JW for a long time you get conditioned to see everything in extremes, as a black-and-white world, and that this can carry over into a compulsive urge to disassociate. To me, it gives a better anti-witness to just be free, go away naturally and live yor own life without having to take any extreme action, such as disassociating is. It's like when a close friend does something stupid to upset you...it's human nature to react strongly back when we are especially hurt by the things we love and sought solace from....we lash out the strongest against the things we love the most. But is that healthy? Isn't it a sign of a more advanced ethic to refuse to respond at the same level that we have been treated badly. That's just my way of seeing it. I uppose it can bring some kind of closure, but overall I can't see what really is achieved by it. I think it would be just as much pain to run into a JW who treats you like a leper knowing that you 'turned your back on Jehovah' by d'aing, than running into a JW that simply thinks you are weak or inactive and is still prepared to talk to you. I would only ever consider d'aing if I was moving to a new region or country and had no family or friends I still liked in the organisation. At least that way you may be able to plant some seed of doubt in their mind that makes them start to wonder more about something they may have already. If they ask questions like 'havn't see you at the meetings lately' then all you need to say back is that you have some issues and are taking a break or something wishy washy and evasive like that. That's all you need to do. But I'm sure you have your reasons and I respect them.
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What is Rom 15: 20,21 getting at?
by yaddayadda inromans 15: 20 & 21 "in this way, indeed, i made it my aim not to declare the good news where christ had already been named, in order that i might not be building on another man's foundation; but, just as it is written: "those to whom no announcement has been made about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand.
could this be used to show that jw's are wrong to condemn all other christians as false, because as long as these other christians have accepted christ and have him as their foundation, does it really matter if some of their doctrines are not quite right?
i think this scripture shows that jw's are wrong to focus so much on the faults of other christian religions.
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yaddayadda
That's a brilliant point Dust, cheers. It's very hard to see why Paul would counsel the Corinthians against claiming to follow certain personalities such as Apollos, himself, etc, unless there were some different teachings coming through. This seems clear from Paul's instruction that they should all be 'fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought'. It seems what was happening at this stage was the early signs of the foretold great apostasy developing, that appeared to later be almost fully blown by the time Jesus gave his messages to the 7 congregations in Revelation. If Paul and Apollos were completely in harmony teaching-wise, then surely there would not have been any rivalry between these apparent factions that existed back then. Fascinating. I would love to find more research on the extent that the early Christians were in total agreement in teaching and belief. (Maybe it would be best to start a new thread on that particular line of enquiry.)
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Society demands submission as a 'sacred responsibility'
by yaddayadda inthe society demands submission to them as equal to submission to christ.
nov 1, 2006 watchtower, page 22 of the first study article "do you share jehovah's view of sacred things?
" para 7:
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yaddayadda
The Society demands submission to them as equal to submission to Christ. Nov 1, 2006 Watchtower, page 22 of the first study article "Do You Share Jehovah's View of Sacred Things?" para 7: "Submission to Christ also involves our showing proper respect for the men used by him to take the lead in the work he is now directing. The role of the spirit-anointed ones who make up the Governing Body, and of the overseers appointed by them in the branches, districts, circuits, and congregations should be recognised as a sacred responsibiliy. This arrangement therefore commands our deep respect and submission. - Hebrews 13:7,17" The question for this paragraph is: "How do we show our submission to Christ"
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God's Channel of Instruction = "trusted & loyal followers"
by yaddayadda inthe oct 15 2006 wt, main article about getting to know god, page7, under the subheading, 'identifying god's channel of instruction':
"where can we find assistance in understanding the word of truth and then in living in accord with it?
in israel of old, god provided leadership through trusted and loyal individuals in positions of responsibility.
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yaddayadda
The Oct 15 2006 WT, main article about getting to know God, page7, under the subheading, 'Identifying God's Channel of Instruction': "Where can we find assistance in understanding the Word of truth and then in living in accord with it? In Israel of old, God provided leadership through trusted and loyal individuals in positions of responsibility. The Head of the Christian congregation today, Christ, likewise guides those who sincerely search for the truth. He does so through his trusted and loyal followers, who make up the channel responsible for directing and protecting earnest seekers of truth. (Matthew 24: 45-47; Colossians 1:18) But how can one identify God's channel of instruction?" Why has the Society used the vague wording 'through his trusted and loyal followers' and not 'the faithful and discreet slave' or similar? All JW's, both of the remnant and the great crowd, are 'trusted and loyal followers' are they not? Is the Society simply being wishy-washy with the wording in this article to hide from the public the fact that they really teach that only the Governing Body and its heirarchy constitute the self-proclaimed 'channel of communication'?
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What is Rom 15: 20,21 getting at?
by yaddayadda inromans 15: 20 & 21 "in this way, indeed, i made it my aim not to declare the good news where christ had already been named, in order that i might not be building on another man's foundation; but, just as it is written: "those to whom no announcement has been made about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand.
could this be used to show that jw's are wrong to condemn all other christians as false, because as long as these other christians have accepted christ and have him as their foundation, does it really matter if some of their doctrines are not quite right?
i think this scripture shows that jw's are wrong to focus so much on the faults of other christian religions.
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yaddayadda
Romans 15: 20 & 21 "In this way, indeed, I made it my aim not to declare the good news where Christ had already been named, in order that I might not be building on another man's foundation; but, just as it is written: "Those to whom no announcement has been made about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand." Could this be used to show that JW's are wrong to condemn all other Christians as false, because as long as these other Christians have accepted Christ and have him as their foundation, does it really matter if some of their doctrines are not quite right? I think this scripture shows that JW's are wrong to focus so much on the faults of other Christian religions.