Posts by Borgia

17

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 4-22-07 WT Study (Enjoy Life Fear Jah)

by blondie in

then the end will come.compare matthew 10:23.. *** w97 8/15 p. 14 par.

" turn to pages 82-4, and read paragraph 21.. bible.

then read 1 peter 5:7 and paragraph 11 on page 11.

Borgia

Blondie,

When I read the title of the "study"-article I instantly had to think of this bible text:

(1 John 4:15-19) “. . .Whoever makes the confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God. 16 And we ourselves have come to know and have believed the love that God has in our case. God is love, and he that remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him. 17 This is how love has been made perfect with us, that we may have freeness of speech in the day of judgment, because, just as that one is, so are we ourselves in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love. 19 As for us, we love, because he first loved us.”

I still am trying to get my head around the simple question of what good this article should be.......

But as for your analysis: Great!

Cheers

Borgia

8

Does Isaiah 25:8 indicate Jews expected to live forever on earth?

by jwfacts in

the watchtower uses two scriptures from isaiah as proof of people living forever on paradise earth.

isaiah 65:17-25 actually does not say people will live forever, in fact the opposite, it says man will fulfill his days and die.. for here i am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart.

18 but exult, you people, and be joyful forever in what i am creating.

Borgia

Hi Jwfacts, I found the follwing quotes: Jewish encycloepdia under ressurrection: Like all ancient peoples, the early Hebrews believed that the dead go down into the underworld and live there a colorless existence (comp. Isa. xiv. 15-19; Ezek. xxxii. 21-30). Only an occasional person, and he an especially fortunate one, like Enoch or Elijah, could escape from Sheol, and these were taken to heaven to the abode of Yhwh, where they became angels (comp. Slavonic Enoch, xxii.). In the Book of Job first the longing for a resurrection is expressed (xiv. 13-15), and then, if the Masoretic text may be trusted, a passing conviction that such a resurrection will occur (xix. 25, 26). The older Hebrew conception of life regarded the nation so entirely as a unit that no individual mortality or immortality was considered. Jeremiah (xxxi. 29) and Ezekiel (xviii.) had contended that the individual was the moral unit, and Job's hopes are based on this idea.

A different view, which made a resurrection unnecessary, was held by the authors of Ps. xlix. and lxxiii., who believed that at death only the wicked went to Sheol and that the souls of the righteous went directly to God. This, too, seem based on views analogous to those of Jeremiah and Ezekiel, and probably was not widely held. In the long run the old national point of view asserted itself in the form of Messianic hopes. These gave rise to a belief in a resurrection in order that more might share in the glory of the Messianic kingdom. This hope first finds expression in Isa. xxvi. 19, a passage which Cheyne dates about 334 B.C. The hope was cherished for faithful Israelites. In Dan. xii. 1-4 (about 165 B.C.) a resurrection of "many . . . that sleep in the dust" is looked forward to. This resurrection included both righteous and wicked, for some will awake to everlasting life, others to "shame and everlasting contempt."

They then go on to discuss pharasaic, sadducaic, essenic and other rabbinic traditions in this respect. However, it does not concern itself with the influence of zoroatrism on this particular issue. It is of interest that they do note a difference of opinion about the nature of ressurrection of the early hebrews and the later ones.

Cheers

Borgia

15

Daniel 4:1-37, "Seven times"

by Son of John in

daniel 4:1-37, "seven times".

what was the tree like, before it was cut down?

the situation is described in daniel 4:11, 12:.

Borgia

Welcome to the board, Son of John.

In addition to what Narkissos already stated: Nebu wrote a letter to all his important dudes in his realm. The matter of that letter was: Who rules in the kingdom of mankind? (The WTS tries to show that it is about UNIVERSAL rulership. That explanation goes beyound the scope of this passage. Compare Genesis after Noah left the ark. You'll find a nice little circle there about all the inhabited earth: Greece, Libya, Egypt, Arabia, Persia, Turkey. Quite limited knowledge is it not?)

The end of the letter relates to the acknowledgement Nebu makes as to WHO that ruler in the kingdom of mankind is......The GOD of HEAVEN(given his ambigious language he may relate here to the God of Daniel or his own God Marduk. But let's not spoil the pleasure with such considerations)

At any rate: this chapter opens doors to a lot of wishful thinking.

I certainly "like" the response from "bethel". FREEEEEEZE MF, don't even breathe apostate thinking or we will be kicking your apostate A** big time!

How loving, is it not?

Cheers

Borgia

44

WILL THE WATCHTOWER EVER DO THE RIGHT THING AND APOLOGIZE?

by nvrgnbk in

jw
friends

will this arrogant, presumptuous organization that has ruined so many lives, that loves to talk about humility and modesty, ever present a formal apology to all those who've suffered at their hands?.

would it really matter if they did?.

nvrgnbk .

Borgia

I would not discount the possibility entirely, but I do not consider it probable.

Apologies have to be followed that show repentance, no?.......turning away from bad ways?........What would then be their point of existence......none.

Private induviduals have sometimes.....is as close as it gets.

Cheers

Borgia

19

A Non-JW account of CT Russell...

by Mad in

jw
friends

>subject: fw: presby.

minister's commentary on bro.

russell.

Borgia

It was a successful but skeptical businessman of 18 that he stepped into a dingy basement to see if a handful who met there had anything more sensible than the creeds of the churches.

Sounds like a quote from Watchtower or Proclaimers book.

*** w73 7/1 p. 394 par. 5 Organized to Praise God ***(as seemingly written by Russel himself without quote reference......)

Seemingly by accident, one evening I dropped into a dusty, dingy hall in Allegheny, Pa., where I had heard that religious services were held, to see if the handful who met there had anything more sensible to offer than the creeds of the great churches. There, for the first time, I heard something of the views of Second Adventism, by Jonas Wendell . .

And

Zion’s watchtower, July 15, 1906, p. 230.

Gradually I was led to see that though each of the creeds contained some elements of truth, they were, on the whole, misleading and contradictory of God’s Word. Among other theories, I stumbled upon Adventism. Seemingly by accident, one evening I dropped into a dusty, dingy hall, where I had heard religious services were held, to see if the handful who met there had anything more sensible to offer than the creeds of the great churches. There, for the first time, I heard something of the views of Second Adventists, the preacher being Mr. Jonas Wendell, long since deceased. Thus, I confess indebtedness to Adventists as well as to other denominations. Though his Scripture exposition was not entirely clear, and though it was far from what we now rejoice in, it was sufficient, under God, to re-establish my wavering faith in the divine inspiration of the Bible, and to show that the records of the apostles and prophets are indissolubly linked. What I heard sent me to my Bible to study with more zeal and care than ever before, and I shall ever thank the Lord for that leading; for though Adventism helped me to no single truth, it did help me greatly in the unlearning of errors, and thus prepared me for the Truth.

Therefore not quite a source from outside

Cheers

Borgia

9

Will WT "Euphrates" dry up more in 2007? (New IRS rules)

by Open mind in

first off, there's a new poster who hasn't gotten much of a welcome.

mr. born again.

he's done three posts.

Borgia

Some countries in Europe have a long standing policy of tax deductable gifts. An applicable treshhold may apply before the total becomes eligible for deduction, based of evidence: slips of direct debits, credit card payments, wiretransfers, the lot.

Of interest is to see the variance in amounts. My observation: the number of actual gifts is quite limited to a few die-hard old timers. This little group also is responsible for the substance of the gifts in general. I suspect that 80% of the amount of gifts comes from that group. The rest is caught up in taking care of kids, costs of vacations, house, car, the lot.

The assembly experience of the little kid that drops it's life savings into the box, to me is examplary of the bad shape the contribution issue is in. And it does not seem to improve......

There is another factor that may contribute to the decrease of contributions: plastic/ electronic.

1)credit cards: pay with your signature: you do not need to carry around many $
2)debit cards: pay wih your pin: you do not need to carry around many $

3)CHIP payment: some countries offer digital purse payments with a single yes or no. Again no need to carry around $.

With all plastic/digital options: tipping can be done by a top up on the bill.

Cheers

Borgia

25

Attention all Ex-JW Researchers, New Wiki Project Needs you....

by drew sagan in

jw
friends

as many of you well know the internet is quite a powerful tool.

it was the internet that allowed many of us to have the organization exposed before our very eyes for what it really was, men who had raised themselves up to the level of god.

there are just tons of ex-jw sites on the net.

Borgia

JGNAT,

today, that website was not available. It is said to be back soon.....

Drew, yes, I think it would be a good idea to have a website with facts about the WBTS and co, although I would not dismiss personal experience. I suppose there would be a way of validating an experience.

If I can be of help, let me know.

Cheers

Borgia

31

Book: The Inside Story of Jehovah's Witnesses, Stevenson, 1968

by betterdaze in

the inside story of jehovah's witnesses .

stevenson, william charles, 1936- .

publisher: hart pub.

Borgia

Given the figures in the 69 WT: a 20 year groth of say a million. 200.000 unaccounted for (assumed an death rate of 1%)= left= about 20%. In comparisson: 2005 service figures show babtised almost: 3 million (10 year growth)and an increase of 4.9 to 6.4 million (1.5 million increase). So: about 50% have left!

Now let's talk about the quality of our preaching service.......

Cheers

Borgia

21

DRIVES ME NUTS!! MUST be the angels. COULDN'T be coincidence per WT.

by Open mind in

thanks to the last three paragraphs of this week's wt being devoted to complete insanity, i passed a tiny, tiny, little mile-stone in fading.

i didn't comment once during the wt!!

i usually try to make one comment that doesn't make my stomach turn too much to keep up my good, active-dub appearances.

Borgia

Angels guiding the work........

There focus on the work is of such nature that they only have time to watch the women in the cong to see the proper attitude of submission. What ever come beyound that, they have not time to waste on that.

Don't you just love those heavenly buggers.

Cheers

Borgia

18

The THIRD DIMENSION of Understanding

by Terry in

jw
friends

what could be more separate?

what could be more distinctively unalike than a cricle .

a triangle...

Borgia

Interesting analogy.

Is it not merely that people tend to be in some mood to a certain extend from one time to another. Even from one subject to another. It is always helpful to have more parties available for consultation.

Looking at something from a different angel-s, different perspective-s, inside out, outside in, short range, long range, magnified or the oposite. It certainly reminds me of the first time I confronted myself with the way the outside world looks upon the JW- movement (eufemism: eyeopener)

Cheers

Borgia