Posts by Borgia

I had a JW girlfriend once. We went seeing each other for about a year and a half. Back then I had just quitted pioneering and moved to another cong. Her dad told me that she was not materialistic at all.

However, she never stopped pointing out which cars she liked, what kind of house she wanted, in what stores she wanted to buy clothes, you know. My carreer had not even started and she was really pushing me ahead. Always talking about how well her brother in law was doing. Gist: A very nice hot but expensive lady. When things did not go as fast as she had it figured out in her head, things went wrong. I think she tried to double dare me, but the response within me was I appreciated it as disdain. In the course of our courtship I came to realize how that would effect me. It would litterally kill me. So, I said goodbye and bailed out.

Now I am married about 12 years to a lovely woman. Although my wife never expected me to be or become a hotshot, neither in JW world nor in this one, it is all about changing the settings. I did that to her world. Her neat little cosy world where everthing fell into place, no longer is like that. She has to do it on her own. Her own determination and faith is on the test. When she is at the meetings, she sits there alone, watching all the “happy” couples around, singing the chants together. But I encourage her to tell anything she is happy to vent in relation to the meetings, JW´s, the lot, because it is often about people I know.

Should I feel sorry about that? To a degree I do. Because if I had not changed, it all would feel sooooo goood. What I came to know, became known to me after I got married. What can you do? Face up to the facts. That is the reality she and I live in.

She sometimes vents that she want to know WHY I changed. But then again, she is too afraid to get to know it. To her it is all about how her life looks like. Not only to herself, but to the people she feels are important inside that little cosy world. I wish she come to me with something she investigated herself. But she does no such thing. So, I keep it easy, point out to my kids how other people think and why they think so. And in the course of a year.......although she would not admit it, she has already come pretty far. Deep in her hart she knows that we do not think and feel so differently about many things after all. She does not place great importance on it.

I spent 2 weeks away on a business trip. She was glad I was back again, you know, you then get the extra for missing out on the other days. After all we have already been through, she still loves me and that is a great feeling. How different her response was from that of my former girlfriend in the same circumstance.

I came to realize that a marriage is not an end. It is a way to become happy and bring fullness to life. If that relationship does not contribute to that end, it is possible to both work hard in order to meet that end. Having the same religion is not a prerequisite. Determination to make it happen, yes. Sense of reality, for sure. Dreamworld......no...and then again yes. There is still a lot to dream about, to dream together about outside of the Borg and their new system of things. Humor... afirmative. But.....it has to come from both sides. If that is not present........well......I think you really know what it means.

So, Auld Soul, I wish you strength and stomach to harnass this situation.

Cheers

Borgia

51

Do you truly WANT the Watchtower to collapse? If so why?

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

there are the abuses of course, the diabloical 'two witness' rule applied to allegations of molestation, the reckless 'blood ban' in all it's tortuous complexities (which by watchtowers own admission has resulted in many fatalaties) and the cruel punishment of shunning which has caused so much suffering and pain to many of us here.. is it for these reasons that you want to see the watchtower fall or is it simply that you want to see them humiliated and broken for what they've done to you?

most of us aren't bitter or selfish enough to want personal revenge against the watchtower but i'd be lying if i said i didn't sometimes think like that.. the reason for my original question is that i sometimes feel a bit hypocritical.

i try to accord respect to jw's and individuals of all faiths, (yes, even when i go off on one of my atheistic diatriabes) but whereas i allow myself to be hostile to the watchtower i shrink from being so forthright against other 'christian' faiths whose corrosive nature may not be so easily apparent but is there nonetheless.. i guess my question is; why do we want the watchtower to fall but do not wish all religion to fall?.

Borgia

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776 The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred. to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

I am sure that to some degree the signers of this important document have had some experience with the above described.......to me it is evident that a system that surpresses freedom has no right in its own to exist. It will come to an end. The issue is always: who are willing to fight for what they perceive as their right and themost important questions are: WHEN? and WHERE? And in what way.

When a group of people is not strong enough to counter an attack in full battle mode, it may resort to other tactics: scorged earth and guerilla. History has shown these to be very discouraging for a regular army.

However, some form of coordination is needed to be succesfull.

The establishment of the US signified in no way a deathblow to the Empire. Instead that empire was to grow in power. The Great War proved to be a war in which the Empire overextended itself. Subsequent demise was and still is inevitable.

Given the above, all you Americans out here, and others who hold freedom in high esteem, should want to wish and work for the demise of the WBTS and other cult type organisations whether they wear a religious, political, sportlike or whatever other type of mask. The point is not the demise itself, which would be the focus of a grudge and vengeance, the point is a higher moral standard based on freedom.

Cheers

Borgia

16

The Bible, Religion and your point of view

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

the bible, religion and your point of view depending on where you stand regarding this subject there can.

no disputing the influence of the bible in art, literature, and even.

in the influence of the making of common laws.. separating the bible and religion this topic is not focused on discussing the watchtower's viewpoint.

Borgia

Let your yes mean yes. Simply as that. It is something that is found througout human society in every culture old and new, sophisticated and advanced till simple and backward. Now image someone holding the bible and saying that he will tell the truth, nothing but the truth so help him God.......

The GB holds the bible in the one hand and says to tell the truth.........yet, history has proven them liars. So what does that tell us about holding a bible and making an utterance (ex cathedra).....

Sorry, Richard. I find this, although a fascinating and maybe an endearing gesture, one without meaning and solidity.

Apart from the fact that people have put at risk their lives, well being and posessions in order to even read only parts of it, does not make it truth.

The same goes for people prepared to risk anything on their search for knowledge. It only makes the ones surpressing search for knowledge and truth to be dispicable.

Although the NT may be of some influence on a personal level towards higher moral, the OT clearly is not. I consider that part to be cruel and dark, filled with petty revenge and inconsistencies.

cheers

Borgia

17

Year 2014 Get Together!

by Outaservice in

jw
friends

do you think it might be appropriate for a large ex-jw convention to be held in 2014 at the hotel in cedar point, ohio?

maybe, thousands attending!

it would give you plenty of time to plan for and give a statement for any familiar with watchtower history!.

Borgia

What about a drama: When a loved one leaves Jehovah.....always in for a few good laughs

media attention?

Cheers

Borgia

26

Please share this inspiring story with everyone you know.

by under_believer in

jw
friends

people have been posting "encouraging" stories from their witness mailing lists lately.

i thought i'd share one i encountered, too.

many years ago, a new family moved into our neighborhood, little six-year-old emma and her mom and dad.

Borgia

Underbeliever,

Thanks for the good laugh......Brace for impact....Har har har....

Cheers

Borgia

14

Another Watchtower Simplification!

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

idle hands are the devil's playthings.... http://thebentinel.com/watchtower3.html.

.

Borgia

I laughed my arse off...jolllllllly good, indeed.

Cheers

Borgia

22

the da vinci code

by Sam87 in

jw
friends

ok i havnt seen the movie or read the book yet but im going to watch it tonight, i was having a discussion with my girlfriends sister about the movie, and she is under the impression that some of it is real, for example jesus getting married and having offspring.. from what i can gather she is coming to this conclusion because da vinci painted a picture of the last supper and it has hidden messages in it.

but she seems to beleive its true?!

what does one persons paintings have to do with whether jesus was married?

Borgia

Pictures used are all part of the renaissance. And basically they are proof. Question is: proof of what?

I liked the book very much, encouraged me to do some digging. I even read a book about guys who discerned from de geometric in some paintings the burial place of Jesus and the Magdalene in the Languedoc.

However, these groups all have some things in common: talk about Jesus not being resurrected on the third day literally but in a more gnostic sense and living out the days of his live to one extend or another. Now, to discern how much of that is gossip, evil talk or plain truth, that is a matter of hot debate.

Another point of interest is: lot´s of the religious and gnostic have borrowed from eachhother freely and used the same symbols and ideas. What a blessing copyright is......

Does not make the fact go away that Dan Brown wrote a nice novel and Tom Hanks provided a few hours of diversion.

Cheers

Borgia

2

The New Jerusalem

by gordon d in

jw
friends

okay... this is how my mind works...sometimes...when i'm avoiding doing my work.

based upon the dimensions given in the bible, the new jerusalem is pretty big.

if only 144,000 actually get to go inside and live there, that would mean that each room is more than 22,000 cubic miles in volume!!!

Borgia

Gordon,

You are close to crack the reason.....it's ego.........HUGE!!!

Cheers

Borgia

137

New World Translation Brackets!!

by gold_morning in

for what it is worth i wanted to pass this along.. we are all aware of those convienient brackets used in the new world translation.

the infamous colossians 1:16....."because by means of him all ((((other)))))) things were created...".

at the very bottom of the first page of their bible ...the foreword.... it says.

Borgia

I am wondering why this suject of trinity is always presented like or...or: It´s trinity or WT kind of neo arian stance.

Why is it not conceivable that there may be a position in the middle. Trinity not true neither is the WT stance.

I do not remeber having read that during this year.....

cheers

Borgia