What if she never leaves JWs? (The interminable waiting period...)

by AuldSoul 87 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  AuldSoul

  This has NOTHING to do with whether I love my wife. I do. I always will.

  Pragmatically, I have come to the devastating conclusion that I don't want to be married to a JW. Any JW.

  She asked me last night, "So, do you believe in Santa Clause, now?" This may seem harmless enough, but think about what it means as far as her view of me.

  What if I said, "Yes. I do believe in Santa Clause now." What then? What if decided I wanted to try a cigar? What then? What if, knowing the health risks, I took up smoking? What then? I know she was deeply disappointed that I got baptized as a Christian. I expect I will never be able to come out from under the cloud of her disapproval so long as I am not a "progressing" JW.

  When I was a JW, she used to cry about me not being a Ministerial Servant or Elder. I would ask what difference the title makes, and she would explain it was about respect. So, I would ask her who it was that she thought was lacking in respect for me. She said it wasn't that, it was how much she felt like I deserved to be ... then she would trail off. What an odd dichotomy, she is disappointed in me because she thinks I deserve more recognition than I get (or even want), while the only recognition I want (need?) is from her, but her disappointment keeps her from it.

  As I said, it isn't a question of whether I love her. I love her more than breathing. It is a question of whether I can indefinitely tolerate her disapproval, her disappointment, her regret over my choices. I've had this conversation with her, and she said we can work through it. I haven't seen any indication of an abatement in her disapproval, thus far.

  Well, there it is. Any insights would be appreciated. I am not tossing this out for you guys to solve for me, or for you to spit back what you think I want to hear. I am tossing it out so I can consider other perspectives (in case I am missing the forest).

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  Sad emo

  (((AuldSoul))) What an awful position to be in.

  I'm taking a totally detatched view here, but maybe a good question for you to consider.

  Imagine that neither of you have ever been JW's. What opinion of you do you think your wife would have?

  What I'm trying to say is - is her disappointment with you just a JW thing, or is it something within her personality which means you would never come up to her standards?

  If it isn't just the JW issue, there may be hope for at least some resolution if she's willing to speak on human to human level rather than human to JW.
• 

  rebel8

  I've had this conversation with her, and she said we can work through it. I haven't seen any indication of an abatement in her disapproval, thus far.

  Maybe she can agree to not being disapproving in the abstract but cannot see it when she actually behaves disapprovingly? If you point it out to her when it happens, how does she react? Do you give her specific behavioral indicators so she can comprehend what she's doing wrong? For example....."You rolled your eyes and walked away when I said I wanted to toast on New Year's Eve. When you do that, it makes me think you disapprove of me, and I feel ______"

  /end therapist mode :)
• 

  Satanus

  Yeah, that's a tough position, although, it sounds hopeful in that she said that youse can work through it. What some people have suggested before is to go a little extra distance in showing love and appreciation for her, i would add, at the same time, not losing respect. Not having much experience in this type of thing, i will bow out at this point.

  Wishing you the best,

  S
• 

  Abaddon

  You have my symapthy AuldSoul. For me this was a no brainer as when I got to the point of leaving the Borg my then wife had destoyed the love I had for her by repeated cruelty. Part of that cruelty was due to me disappointing her expectations.

  She was reinstated after df'ing for f'ing around and getting pregnant from it. I was the MS son of big-time Elder. Easy access all areas, approval and status all in one hit.

  However, I didn't turn out to be the theocratic force she wanted; we moved to the country, I didn't get made-up to MS again, and free of my parents was able to step off the treadmill and actually realise how much of my life was lived for other people.

  Thus I got "her disapproval, her disappointment, her regret over my choices". She was also incapable of having anything any other way than her way, and if she didn't get it was as vicious as a rat with a flick-knife. She loved me for what she got from me, not for me, and even admitted she'd never been IN love with me.

  I think anyone living indefinately in an environment where they can never do enough, where they are always at fault, where they are always wrong, are consigning themselves to a life of misery... and you don't deserve that. I couldn't do it, as I had no emotional compensation. Maybe you can if the love is still alive, but it is a bitter dish.

  All the best

  Gyles
• 

  kid-A

  While I cant even imagine being in such a situation, I like the thought exercise that Sad Emo suggests.

  In addition, I think its a question of how much of her "JW" identity is simply a mask, versus an integral and ingrained part of her being and personality. There are so many different "degrees" of JWism, the amount of hope that can be offered for reaching some compromise depends solely on this question.

  I think there comes a point when the "JW" becomes indistinguishable from the underlying human being and that is the danger zone. However, if the JW identity is still relatively "surface" level, there is a good chance not only for reaching a reasonable detente, but perhaps even freeing them from the JW mindset.
• 

  jgnat

  I get the sense your wife is an intelligent woman, who picked you on purpose. I'd have a long discussion on what it was about you that attracted her in the first place. And no cookie-cutter JW answers neither, please.
• 

  diamondblue1974

  When I was a JW, she used to cry about me not being a Ministerial Servant or Elder. I would ask what difference the title makes, and she would explain it was about respect. So, I would ask her who it was that she thought was lacking in respect for me. She said it wasn't that, it was how much she felt like I deserved to be ... then she would trail off. What an odd dichotomy, she is disappointed in me because she thinks I deserve more recognition than I get (or even want), while the only recognition I want (need?) is from her, but her disappointment keeps her from it.

  This is such a sad place to be in; its sad that her only admiration of you depends on your approval being met by other men or a man made organisation - sorry for speaking out of turn but that stinks. We both know that her love and admiration should come from within your relationship and how you are together rather than from such external pressures.

  I feel for you - I really do.

  DB74 (Gary)
• 

  gordon d

  I'm Sorry Auldsoul... sincerely sorry!
  
  Your story is a prime example of the why so many people hate this cult! The only thing that I know does work is the example that my wife used effectively on ME....
  
  Let your life be a shining example of what true love and Love for God can be, apart from the "Truth"
  
  Angry apostacy only supports JW viewpoint on those "outside"... seeing that their perspective on others was wrong was what finally did it for me.
  
  1 peter 3:1
  "Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives."
• 

  AuldSoul

  Sad emo: Imagine that neither of you have ever been JW's. What opinion of you do you think your wife would have?

  I honestly don't think she would have married me if neither of us had ever been JWs. I don't think she would have wanted to be close enough a friend of mine to ever decide to marry me. But, mostly because of the race issue, not because of personalities.

  Since we were JWs, I think she wrapped her hopes and aspirations for me up in her idea of what I would become as a JW. Looking back, it seems she was marrying my family (and their reputation) as much as me, at the time. Maybe that is an unfair assessment, on my part. But I know that she grew to value me in many ways apart from JWism, and apart from my family. It is just that the ways she values me don't make a net balance of value without the JWism. The net balance is disapproval. It shines through in many ways every day.

  rebel8: If you point it out to her when it happens, how does she react?

  Excellent question. I hadn't yet thought about how that plays into it. She reacts with denial. To anything mentioned that could be perceived as a negative behavior on her part. I am only being "overly sensitive" and "too critical." Which makes it my fault. Although, honestly, how many ways can an eye roll or other plainly disdainful body language really be perceived?

  Satanus: What some people have suggested before is to go a little extra distance in showing love and appreciation for her, i would add, at the same time, not losing respect.

  I haven't lost respect for her. She frequently comments on how loved and appreciated I make her feel. It isn't love and appreciation she feels she's lacking, it is "the man she married" (which apparently excludes my "love and appreciation" for her as reasons she married me) that she misses. The fine comments, the family study (which I actually did), the regularity in the ministry, the fine cut of the jib while in dress clothes...these are the things she expresses intense regret and disappointment for losing.

  She won't let me have a family study with her, she won't let me pray with her or listen to her prayers anymore, and she won't discuss the Bible with me. Per instructions she received from my father (a local Presiding Overseer). I don't often have occasion to wear dress clothes, anymore. I have no reason to attend a formalized question and answer session anymore, and I would not be invited to participate in the ones she attends.

  While I could technically engage in the door to door ministry, there are toenails that need clipping, paint that desperately needs to be watched while it dries, so many more important things to do. I don't express things that way to her, mind you. Those kinds of ventings are reserved for this forum.

  Please keep the comments coming. This is helping me to get the situation into clearer focus.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul