AuldSoul

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Posts by AuldSoul

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  56

  WOULD JESUS POST ON JWD?

  by nvrgnbk in

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  2. friends
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  AuldSoul

  Probably not. But he'd talk with me. He'd kick back a few beers with me, too.

  He'd never have been a JW, but he would have a jgnat style empathy for those who have been/still are.
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  50

  Shammatta—"Disfellowshipping" Jewish Style

  by AuldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  matthew 24:48-51 48 but if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, "my master is delaying," and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites.

  there is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.. insight on the scriptures, volume 1, p. 787, expelling.

  finally, there was shammatta, an entire cutting off from the congregation.

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  AuldSoul

  SBF, are you asserting that God ordered the Israelites to murder? Soldiers may kill, but do they all murder?

  Just to establish your credential for voicing an opinion on the question I said (Psst!) about, have you been an elder and have you ever had personal interaction with the Service Desk, or intimate "receiving end" discussions with Cos or DOs?
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  50

  Shammatta—"Disfellowshipping" Jewish Style

  by AuldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  matthew 24:48-51 48 but if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, "my master is delaying," and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites.

  there is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.. insight on the scriptures, volume 1, p. 787, expelling.

  finally, there was shammatta, an entire cutting off from the congregation.

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  AuldSoul

  SBF, all kidding aside, you never met a JW who was positionally higher on the "food chain" and felt no compunction about making sure everyone knew it? If so, you are the rare JW, indeed.

  Either way, they haughtily assert authority the Bible does not give them when they organizationally decide for other people whether someone should be shunned. This practice is completely unlike the practice of the First Century Christian congregations.

  I have often posted that I loved my local congregation elders. I have often posted that many of them were like extra fathers to me. The CO who came to speak with me just prior to my disassociation was very loving and caring—he wanted so badly to help me remain a JW. It clearly pained him that the organization had tied his hands to prevent that possibility. But the existence of caring and conscientious elders does NOT negate the existence of those who are very much the opposite. I have known many. One elder told me that I should "dumb down [my] comments at the meetings." Because? "It makes people feel stupid."

  Jesus spoke negatively of the Pharisees despite the fact that Nicodemus was not like them. (Matthew 23:1-36) That organizational system has much more in common with the organizational system of Jehovah's Witnesses than the First Century Christian congregation ever did.

  SBF, I think you are blinded to the bad because you choose to only see the good. I see both. The good cannot effectively mitigate the damage done by the bad since the bad is at the top of the organization, so the good cannot ever change it.

  I have never know a soldier who coerced a mother into shunning her own children. That's pretty vile, SBF, there's no denying it. She is forced to live with the knowledge that her living child must be treated as though dead. That's pretty sick, when you think about it. In many ways, it would be easier if the child was dead. It would be easier on both the child and the mother.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  70

  We Are Dying!

  by WeAreDying-Ophelia in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is my first post and might be my only post, not sure.

  i've chosen to "come out" for a moment just to talk about the 30 minute change in the public talk on sundays.

  my father and brother are both elders, this change was a blow to them they enjoy giving encouraging public talks to the friends.

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  AuldSoul

  (((Ophelia))),

  I am tearing up writing this, so please forgive any spelling errors as I can't see all that well. As painful and confusing as this experience is for you, I can only pray that my family is being affected the same way yours is. Maybe eventually they will talk to me again.

  Rosalee asked a very important question: Why are you asking this here?

  I know the answer. I experienced the same thing. You are asking this here because you can ask questions here. When I first started having questions, I felt so horribly awkward and evil asking questions of my Presiding Overseer father, but I could ask them here. There is no anonymous mechanism for questioning among JWs; just as there is no question that will not arouse suspicion, at best.

  I hurt for your pain. Many of us have gone through it. Don't give up in asking questions. Jesus' disciples questioned him often and he never chastised or disfellowshipped them for it, even if the questions were about things he'd already answered before. 1 John 4:1 lovingly encourages Christians to put authoritative statements to the test, to put them on trial, to see whether they originate with God. It also tells the source of every authoritative statement not originating with God.

  There is never a Scriptural proscription on investigating, searching, questioning, or even deciding differently. Don't give up. Make sure of the more important things. (which contextually means the doctrine you hold and teach; Philippians 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 4:15, 16; 1 Peter 1:10-11; 1 Corinthians 2:1-3:23)

  Dig freely in the field of God's word. You will find ample silver and gold, plenty of treasure that has been doctrinally hidden from your view up until now. Just, please, promise that you will not give up. I know the Shakespearean play your name comes from, and Ophelia's end was not at all a pleasant one. You are capable of your own distress, you can cope, you can survive, you can do even much better than that.

  Do not despair, do not give in to distress. There is ample reason to live and love and thrive than just the one you were raised on. I know for sure what I say is true, I very nearly took the path Ophelia took and now cannot imagine that I ever got to that point. I now have a happier and more fulfilling life than JWs believe possible in this system. Sweet lady, do not give in to despair. You are neither mad nor sinning to seek answers (wherever you may find them) to these troubling questions you have. You would be both mad and sinning to do any otherwise.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  61

  Sophistry Lessons—JW Baptismal Prerequisites

  by AuldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (definition).

  in this thread we will examine chapter 18 of the book what does the bible really teach?, entitled baptism and your relationship with god.. .

  is there any scripture provided to support the statement?

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  AuldSoul

  Thanks for the bump, buddy!

  We are nearing the one year mark and no JW has yet provided ANY Scriptural basis for requiring that people preach before baptism, much less for any of the other requirements besides repentance and conversion.

  Anyone? Anyone?
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  14

  Creepy Elder adventures

  by ithinkisee in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so my mom became a jw, and there is this family down the road that has been helping/brainwashing my mom.

  when my dad forbade her to go to meetings she would lock herself in the bathroom and sneak out the window and the jw family down the street would take her to meetings.

  the dad/elder in this jw family had been added and removed as an elder a couple of times and no one knew why.

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  AuldSoul

  ninja: did he ever get his circular saw?

  He found it filed under "JW Reasoning Methods".
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  6

  The WTS should not be called a faithfull and discrete SLAVE

  by Undecided in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  john 15:14,15.

  "you are my friends if you do what i am commanding you.

  i no longer call you slaves, because a slave doesn't know what his master does.

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  AuldSoul

  Ken,

  They take the moniker from a parable and apply it literally to themselves. Why would anyone would think Jesus would view his brothers and joint heirs as actual lowly slaves?

  Paul calls himself a slave of Christ and God to reinforce the extreme efforts to which he went in spreading the gospel. He calls attention to some few as fellow slaves of his, but these also suffered for the sake of the good news. By and large, Christians didn't regard themselves as slaves. Paul made an excellent argument against Christians viewing themselves as slaves.

  Galatians 5:1 — For such freedom Christ set us free. Therefore stand fast, and do not let yourselves be confined again in a yoke of slavery.

  I agree. It is an example of false humility for them to continually paint themselves as slaves while also claiming to be already appointed over all the master's belongings. Someone over all the master's belongings isn't a slave anymore. They have all authority in the house.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  50

  Shammatta—"Disfellowshipping" Jewish Style

  by AuldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  matthew 24:48-51 48 but if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, "my master is delaying," and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites.

  there is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.. insight on the scriptures, volume 1, p. 787, expelling.

  finally, there was shammatta, an entire cutting off from the congregation.

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  AuldSoul

  Matthew 24:48-51 48 — But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, "My master is delaying," and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.

  Insight On the Scriptures, Volume 1, p. 787, Expelling
  Finally, there was shammatta, an entire cutting off from the congregation. Some believe the last two forms of excommunication were undistinguishable from each other.
  
  One who was cast out as wicked, cut off entirely, would be considered worthy of death, though the Jews might not have the authority to execute such a one. Nevertheless, the form of cutting off they did employ was a very powerful weapon in the Jewish community. Jesus foretold that his followers would be expelled from the synagogues. (Joh 16:2) Fear of being expelled, or “unchurched,” kept some of the Jews, even the rulers, from confessing Jesus. (Joh 9:22, ftn; 12:42) An example of such action by the synagogue was the case of the healed blind man who spoke favorably of Jesus.—Joh 9:34.

  Jehovah's Witnesses beat their fellow slaves with the same very powerful weapon used by the Sanhedrin. The purpose of this weapon's use is identical today, it preserves an organization intact that cannot otherwise maintain control over lowly "people of the earth", the amhaarets.

  The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived, chapter 88, The Rich Man and Lazarus
  
  Jesus here uses the rich man to represent the Jewish religious leaders, including not only the Pharisees and the scribes but the Sadducees and the chief priests as well. They are rich in spiritual privileges and opportunities, and they conduct themselves as the rich man did. Their clothing of royal purple represents their favored position, and the white linen pictures their self-righteousness.
  
  This proud rich-man class views the poor, common people with utter contempt, calling them amhaarets, or people of the earth.

  Elders on the forum: Do interactions with the Service Desk and certain COs or DOs give you the impression that you are viewed as amhaarets? (Psst! I already know the answer, but I just wanted lurkers to see that even congregation elders are considered this way by the organization elite)

  Even Bethelites, Missionaries, and Ministerial Training School graduates sometimes view others this way. Some elders and minsterial servants view congregants this way. Many elder's wives view others this way. Some pioneers view non-pioneers this way.

  And anyone who disagrees with the ruling rich man, the Governing Body, is beaten with shammatta, because the Governing Body are no longer fellow slaves, they sit well above the lowly slaves. They take the choice places at meals (table heads) and so certain of their own collective righteousness that they willingly figuratively kill their former "fellow slaves" for disagreeing. They use a "very powerful weapon" that discourages everyone who sees it used from ever risking the experience of that weapon.

  Yet, they claim to be God's people. They claim to be characterized by love. They are lying. The organization is characterized by fear; fear enforced by a "very powerful weapon" that swings wildly at anyone who dares to be fearless in Christ.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  19

  "You have received nothing but love from us..."

  by DeusMauzzim in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "... since you were raised in the truth.

  we respect your decision to break your promise and walk away, but don't slander us by talking about [child abuse / ngo / malawi / insert here].

  how would you respond to this?.

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  AuldSoul

  Deus Mauzzim,

  I received nothing like love from the organization, and I was raised in "the Truth". I loved it, but it did not love me.

  1 Corinthians 13:4-7 — Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

  Let's take a look at the highlighted ones:

  long-suffering: For one full year (and a couple of months) I strove to get Scriptural answers to my questions. While it could be argued that they were being long-suffering with me during that period of time, this could only be claimed if they first admit that there is no need for a Christian religion to have clear (non-interpretive) Scriptural support for its doctrine.

  kind: Insight On the Scriptures says, [Kindness is] "the quality or state of taking an active interest in the welfare of others; friendly and helpful acts or favors." I had dozens of meetings with the elders and even a couple with the CO. I asked for audiences with the Service Desk or Governing Body members and was told I could not have them. I asked where I could get Scriptural answers to my doctrinal/policy questions if the elders and CO couldn't give them and I couldn't seek answers from the source of the doctrines/policy without accusation of apostasy. Did the organization have an active interest in my welfare, or its own welfare?

  does not brag, does not get puffed up: Jehovah's servants are "the happiest group of people on earth." "Jehovah’s Witnesses alone are declaring the good news that the Kingdom has been functioning in the heavens since 1914 with Jesus Christ as King." (Technically true, but misleading since it hasn't been ... still, it's bragging) "During the 20th century, [Jehovah's people] saw the fulfillment of Isaiah’s words: 'The little one himself will become a thousand, and the small one a mighty nation. I myself, Jehovah, shall speed it up in its own time.'" "Jehovah’s motherlike organization diligently fulfills its responsibility to prepare delightful spiritual meals served through its publications and at the meetings of the more than 85,000 Christian congregations worldwide." The organization is characterized by bragging about itself, and puffing itself up by comparing itself favorably to other less desirable "so-called Christian" religions. This has been the case ever since C.T. Russell.

  does not behave indecently: In Insight On the Scriptures, "shammatta" is called a "very powerful weapon" that was used by the Sanhedrin to control the behavior of Jews through threat. It was because of fear of shammatta that many heard but did not respond to Jesus. It was unquestionably indecent of the Sanhedrin to attempt to control people's spiritual decisions through threats of retaliation. Yet, this is exactly what was attempted in my case—leading directly and swiftly to my disassociating myself.

  does not look for its own interests: "If the point still cannot be understood, it may be best to let the matter rest. Perhaps more information on the subject will be published, and then our understanding will be broadened. It would be wrong, however, to try to convince others in the congregation to accept our own divergent opinion. This would be sowing discord, not working to preserve unity." They admit that the truth does not matter as much as does preserving unity. And since they admit that some may not agree with what is being taught, they admit that they only create the appearance of unity. To what end, if not protecting the interests of the organization above the interests of the sheep? Without any doubt, the organization looks for its own interests. Every elder and ministerial servant knows this. It is not love.

  does not become provoked: Someone speaking TRUE statements about the Cartilla obtained by bribe that was officially permitted the sheep in Mexico and truthfully comparing this Cartilla—which identified the holder as first reservist in the armed forces of Mexico, should the need arise, and which lyingly stated that the bearer had completed military service and training they had NOT completed—comparing this Cartilla with the political party card in Malawi, a nation with only ONE political party at the time, is enough to get someone disfellowshipped if they don't shut up. My brother-in-law, the Service Overseer, even asked me why I couldn't just shut up about these things. The organization is easily provoked. Their response is swift and purely in self-interest. They bludgeon offenders with shammatta, a "very powerful weapon" in the Jehovah's Witness community.

  does not keep account of the injury: Any elder can quickly dispel anyone's fanciful notion that the organization does not keep account of the injury, but I doubt any JW lurker believes that the organization doesn't keep account of the injury.

  rejoices with the truth: Actually, the organization strives desperately to minimize the organizational impact of "the truth." The truth is the natural enemy of most organizations, and Jehovah's Witnesses are no exception. For instance, the truth is there is not even a remote possibility that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BC. Tens of thousands of ancient documents remove all possibility of this date being accurate. But the organization does not rejoice in this truth, rather, the organization cringes in fear that this truth will somehow, someday escape the boring and tedious world of scholarship and deposit itself in the public eye in a way that JWs cannot avoid seeing it. They will readily use shammatta against anyone who tries to bring this truth to light.

  bears all things ... endures all things: Well, we ALL know this doesn't apply to the organization. The list of things the organization refuses to bear or endure is very long, and includes many, many things not condemned by the Bible.

  Deus, that would be my response. Love is characterized by something very different than this organization has ever shown me. I hope that helps.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  26

  "Jehovah ALWAYS has worked through ONE organization!"

  by Dagney in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how many times have we heard this?.

  i would like to know if any of you have any good arguements refuting this.

  my brain is fried from two weeks of "fencing" with jw's.

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  AuldSoul

  Great points, atypical! Whether or not Jesus acted alone, he was in direct opposition to the organization Jehovah was working with at that time. At least, from the JW perspective. He encouraged apostasy from that organization. (John 9) The organization JWs say Jehovah was using was disfellowshipping (shammatta) anyone who confessed Jesus as Christ. Jesus foretold that his disciples would be expelled from the synagogues, not that they would choose to leave (a la "get out of her").

  Insight On the Scriptures Volume 1, p. 787, Expelling Finally, there was sham·mat·ta´, an entire cutting off from the congregation. Some believe the last two forms of excommunication were undistinguishable from each other.
  
  One who was cast out as wicked, cut off entirely, would be considered worthy of death, though the Jews might not have the authority to execute such a one. Nevertheless, the form of cutting off they did employ was a very powerful weapon in the Jewish community. Jesus foretold that his followers would be expelled from the synagogues. (Joh 16:2) Fear of being expelled, or “unchurched,” kept some of the Jews, even the rulers, from confessing Jesus. (Joh 9:22, ftn; 12:42) An example of such action by the synagogue was the case of the healed blind man who spoke favorably of Jesus.—Joh 9:34.

  This "powerful weapon" has often been used by "God approved" religious organizations that are afraid of the influence of people who try to follow Jesus' example. Jehovah's Witnesses use this weapon today. In fact, they bludgeoned me with it. Very nearly to the point of death. They have used this weapon effectively to silence MANY still-active Jehovah's Witnesses who live in near constant fear of their real views being exposed, quite similar to the parents of the man born blind.

  Which authority are they most like—Jesus or the Sanhedrin? Really, it is an insult to the Sanhedrin to compare Jehovah's Witnesses' exercise of authority to them. The Sanhedrin was not nearly so private in their trying of the accused which makes Jehovah's Witnesses so much more Draconian. The comparison to Draco is unfair, too, for even he never advocated private tribunals.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul