Posts by Copernicus

113

Silentlambs and Signifiers that Signify Nothing

by dunsscot in

call me a neopositivist, a semi-verificationist or semi-falsificationist, but the claims made by "silentlambs" reminds me of the shakespearean line that was quoted in the creator book published by the wtbts.

that is, the contentions of silentlambs seem like much "sound and fury" that in truth signify nothing.

i am of course referring to the supposed dateline show and the claims made about some members of the gb of jehovah's witnesses.

Copernicus

Jerome said:

Without question he has no experience in these areas; that is abundantly (ab unda: from the flood) clear for all who are experienced to see, and his tediously prolonged verbosity now rings hollow. He is seen to be the apologist that he insidiously is.

To which Duns responded:

I do not have all day to dispense with the sum total of mendacious and unjustified vilifications thrust at my faith today.

The multitudes of first person examples of abuse that have been posted on this board don’t warrant some degree of vilification? Are the perpetrators not villainous? You must be kidding. I then have to ask, what WOULD qualify them as such in your view?

And:

He now resorts to vague questions and trap queries in an attempt to put a true follower of Christ to the test.

Duns now resorts to exhibiting a persecution complex: the last bastion of the deluded, self-righteous, and hopelessly defeated.

Yes Duns, Jerome is right, you have no experience in these areas and you are arguing out of your depth. Why do that?

To Isis:

Welcome to the board, that thanks for speaking up. I can imagine how trying disputes like this are to someone who has suffered as you have.

As we seen played out over and over again in the political arena in these types of situations, the Society also will attempt to deny, deny, deny (thereby showing their complete indifference to the pain of their victims). . . until the facts are presented for all to see. For you, and others like you Isis, vindication of some sort is on the horizon. I say this because I too have had some recent involvement with the almost completed Dateline expose’, and I can tell you that this mess is far worse then I could have ever imagined. For certain, you are not alone.

20

A Chinese Meal with Fred Franz

by VM44 in

jw
friends

near the beginning of the book, "the orwellian world of jehovah's.

witnesses," one of the authors gives a personal experience where.

he and others were treated by fred franz to a meal at a chinese.

Copernicus

Max said:

I have absolutely no use for the czars who clean up today. Copernicus tells it like it is in many well-to-do areas.

“Czars”. . . what a perfect description that title confers!

I wanted to note that in my post I certainly didn’t mean to imply that many of the traveling brothers don’t sacrifice greatly in every way to perform what they believe is a service to their brothers. They do.

But what I saw with my own eyes among those who I dealt with personally, was the dawning realization that the end wasn’t coming – and they had better do something fast to cover their butts. A perfectly understandable human reaction to an apparent fact. Unfortunately these same men continued to encourage the average pub to forego college, retirement planing, etc. Thus creating the same predicament for others that they themselves where trying to avoid.

What I’ve often wondered about though was how certain CO’s did seem to be selected for the choice areas. I have to believe that strings were pulled to get certain assignments, assuming one had the “juice” to make it happen.

Thoughts?

20

A Chinese Meal with Fred Franz

by VM44 in

jw
friends

near the beginning of the book, "the orwellian world of jehovah's.

witnesses," one of the authors gives a personal experience where.

he and others were treated by fred franz to a meal at a chinese.

Copernicus

Speaking of Franz, Maximus said:

When he traveled--and one year he went around the world--folks would slip him cash either in his palm or in envelopes, but nothing on the grand scale that takes place today.

I can’t speak for what goes on at Bethel, but I know that within my own circuit (in an affluent city), the CO’s do very well. Based on what I personally gave them every visit in the form of cash or other gifts, and assuming that at least 10 others (a low estimate) in the congregation did the same, they’d easily be good to go to the tune of between 500 –1000 dollars a week. Not bad hey? I used to think about this whenever I’d read a resolution to the publishers asking them to approve funds to pay ALL the expenses a CO might incur during his visit.

So let’s see the equivalent in income earned by a poor servant of God such as a CO:

1) a nice furnished apartment paid for by the local circuit = $750 mo
2) new vehicle leased by the Society = $400 mo
3) food and other items paid by the locals = $400 mo
4) Insurance paid by the Society = $300 mo
5) Clothes and other personal items donated $200 mo
6) Direct cash contributions = $3-4000 mo

Net haul: Around 6,000 per month, tax-free in my area.

Did I miss anything?

Our circuit was a real plum, famous for taking in CO’s on their final tour who were about to retire. They’d get a chance to fatten up the old retirement account over the two years they spent with us. How much, did you ask? Around $100,000 in cash total.

Another minor point. . . early on as a publisher, I noticed that the CO’s seemed to favor certain brothers with special notice. Calling on them for prayers, meeting assignments during the visit, involvement in field service, etc. Later on I found that my being bestowed with such lavish attention by a CO was in direct proportion to my personal contributions to him. What a surprise, huh?

I had to prove this to my wife on several occasions, since she refused to believe it at first. Yes my friends, all sorts of special consideration can be bought in God’s organization. So let’s not be cheapskates!

I’d like to go on expanding on the many other examples I’m aware of, but I was just overtaken by nausea.

65

The dim people

by Norm in

jw
friends

the dim people.

the new world society.

the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.

Copernicus

Dedalus:

Noam Chomsky is brilliant; when I was an undergraduate he saved me from B. F. Skinner and a psychology department gone mad with behaviorist theory. Politics, linguistics, psychology, sociology ... is there anything about which Chomsky isn't brilliant?

B. F. Skinner. . . uuuugggghhhh!!! I’m sure you’re familiar with the accounts of what he did to his daughter? That he ever held any serious sway in academic circles should be of concern to compassionate people everywhere.

And yes, Chomsky IS brilliant. I agree completely with your assessment of him as such. His book, “Manufacturing Consent” is a must read, for ones who want to see the bigger picture. I first caught him by accident while he was giving a speech aired on a public access channel. Had me glued to the tube for 60 minutes. A fascinating thinker, who should be one of the more famous linguists known today. The fact that he isn’t speaks volumes, yes?

55

GB Split Over Bible vs. Policy

by Maximus in

jw
friends

please read the following brief paragraph carefully: .

"once again, the ruling ecclesiastical class suppressed efforts to make gods word available to their flock.

they violently silenced a voice that pointed to some of the errors of their non-biblical beliefs.

Copernicus

I told them that I didn’t inhale. Got me off the hook, ha, ha.

Really though Voltaire, I appreciated your take on the goofy reasoning evident in that article.

65

The dim people

by Norm in

jw
friends

the dim people.

the new world society.

the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.

Copernicus

This post seems to be a creative outing, a departure of style -- and among other things, it is satirical, and therefore uses the tropes and conventions of satire. You don't seem to get that, though.

Hmmmm. . . I guess I didn’t get it either. So that makes at least two of us. In my opinion this “dim” post is not one of Norm’s more particularly shining moments (although he has had MANY). The world is, unfortunately, filled with “dim” people. Conversely, many (in and outside of the WTS) exist to exploit that fact.

Noam Chomsky (one of my favorite political writers) wrote a phenomenal essay entitled (I think) “Leading the Bewildered Herd” that substantiates the above facts, and explores the wide spread use of propaganda to manipulate people in our society today. Well worth a read.

41

Visit my Circuit Overseer page

by Carlo in

jw
friends

hello brothers and sisters.

i'm a circuitoverseer.

you are welcome to visit my page at.

Copernicus

Friday:

In all due deference to my “queer” friends, I must say that you do have a point here, LOL.

Be kind now!

137

Freedom of Thought and JW Opposers

by dunsscot in

jw
friends

does freedom of thought really obtain in this forum?

are those who have left god's organization and jehovah god himself actually now more open-minded and unbiased?

if those who espouse atheistic thoughts or those who believe every vile utterance spoken against jehovah's people think they are now speaking from some olympian perspective, i beg to differ.

Copernicus

Dear Dan:

I understand your sentiments completely and I appreciated your honesty.

Actually, I was hoping that apart from this board, we might be able to talk about something besides religion. You do seem like an interesting fellow and someone whom I’d enjoy getting to know better. I do wish I had known more like you while I was in the org. The lack of any real intellectual outlet among the friends was very discouraging. I have never been one to be content with superficial forms of worship. Certainly, the “deep” things of God should warrant a through cognitive investigation, yes?

Thanks for your assessment of me as an ethical individual; I hope I would qualify as such. It wouldn’t have been my intention to influence you in any way, although such attempts might have become inevitable, or even unconscious on my part.

. . . I have decisions to make in the next few months.

Yes, I would imagine this to be the case. I am confident you have all the tools and information necessary to make the right ones, eg: whatever works for you personally. I am a staunch advocate of informed choice and the personal freedom to exercise it.

I am not DA’d of DF’d, but inactive. I believed that I was drawn to the org by Jehovah’s spirit. My experiences as part of the machine did thereafter crush and violate that transcendent initial motivation. I am still sorting it all out, and believe I will be for many years to come.

I wish you the best, and greatly enjoyed your contribution to our flowering sense of Zeitgeist.

My offer will always remain open,

Copernicus

41

Visit my Circuit Overseer page

by Carlo in

jw
friends

hello brothers and sisters.

i'm a circuitoverseer.

you are welcome to visit my page at.

Copernicus

Carlo is a troll, and I'm sure he's getting a real charge out of some of your posts that take him seriously. Here's a link to his "correspondence" page:

http://www.angelfire.com/ky/proclaimer/607.html

Scroll down to the question entitled "A dutch sister has asked us?"

It will have you ROTFL! I've actually quoted parts of it myself in letters to those I know still in the borg. Though meant as satire, the reasoning is inescapably valid. I think this guy just loves getting mail from JW's who take him seriously

And. . . his page must be popular. It shows up early on in every web search I do for Jehovah's Witnesses.

41

Visit my Circuit Overseer page

by Carlo in

jw
friends

hello brothers and sisters.

i'm a circuitoverseer.

you are welcome to visit my page at.

Copernicus

Yeah. . . yeah, Carlos is a CO, and I sit on the Governing Body.

It’s called satire, people! He’s stroking you!

While I can see where some might have some problems with his approach, there are some comedic gems on his page. The guy does have a strange sense of humor.