Posts by Inquisitor

25

Australian story: Abused JW kid now Melbourne writer

by Inquisitor in

in the march 2007 issue of quadrant, an "australian review journal of literature and ideas", there is a small biography entitled:.

bedevilled: growing up jehovah's witness.

by ashlley morgan shae.. i read the article last night.

Inquisitor

Thank you for the recommendation, Sir Nose.

I only knew of picture sharing sites, so I didn't know what to do with the pdf file. Silly, ignorant me! lol

INQ

25

Australian story: Abused JW kid now Melbourne writer

by Inquisitor in

in the march 2007 issue of quadrant, an "australian review journal of literature and ideas", there is a small biography entitled:.

bedevilled: growing up jehovah's witness.

by ashlley morgan shae.. i read the article last night.

Inquisitor

Here goes. Hope it works.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/650hu5

[url]http://www.sendspace.com/file/650hu5[/url]

INQ

25

Australian story: Abused JW kid now Melbourne writer

by Inquisitor in

in the march 2007 issue of quadrant, an "australian review journal of literature and ideas", there is a small biography entitled:.

bedevilled: growing up jehovah's witness.

by ashlley morgan shae.. i read the article last night.

Inquisitor

Success! I have a pdf file of the article, but how do I put it up on this thread?

INQ

25

Australian story: Abused JW kid now Melbourne writer

by Inquisitor in

in the march 2007 issue of quadrant, an "australian review journal of literature and ideas", there is a small biography entitled:.

bedevilled: growing up jehovah's witness.

by ashlley morgan shae.. i read the article last night.

Inquisitor

In the March 2007 issue of Quadrant, an "Australian review journal of literature and ideas", there is a small biography entitled:

Bedevilled: Growing Up Jehovah's Witness

by Ashlley Morgan Shae.

I read the article last night. Very sad.

Anyone else read it? I wonder if Ashlley is a poster on JWD.

INQ

41

The Bible Says that Jesus is God - Definately

by Sirona in

i am not a bible believer.

i have a question for those of you who are bible believers.

if you believe that jesus is not god, how do you justify the following:.

Inquisitor

Sirona,

Nope. It is entirely possible for someone to believe that Jesus = God without believing in a trinity at all. Even the phrase "father, son and holy spirit" needn't mean a trinity since these three are not referred to as equal, from what I remember.

I don't doubt that possibility. I might do an eye-roll or two though. hehe.

Here's why: If you (not "you" specifically Sirona) can convince yourself that the Jesus is God, surely it's not that hard to accept the third occupant of the Holy House of 3 (I thought it was impolite to say "menage a trois"). On the other hand, if you have trouble accepting the third element, what stopped your critical inquiry and not question the selective scriptural citation to prove Jesus' Godship?

But like I said, it is up to us to choose our religious beliefs.

What I don't understand is why people insist that any argument made in favour of Jesus as God cannot be called a pro-Trinitarian argument. The Trinity doctrine is the product of centuries of insisting Jesus was and is God. Based upon what I've read about the history of this doctrine, the heated focus is not on Mary/Holy Spirit in relation to God, but on who JESUS is in relation to God the Father. The Trinity doctrine was developed to mandate that Jesus is God the Father (there are those who have a different way of wording this; but I prefer to avoid mental clutter).

The immortalization of the Trinity doctrine and the pariah treatment of Christians who reject it today are proofs that the Athanasians had beaten the Arians. To argue FOR the deification of Jesus is to put yourself in the Athanasian/Trinitarian camp.

I'm happy to hear someone say that they believe Jesus is God but that the Trinity doctrine doesn't make sense.

But my eyes roll on impulse...

INQ

41

The Bible Says that Jesus is God - Definately

by Sirona in

i am not a bible believer.

i have a question for those of you who are bible believers.

if you believe that jesus is not god, how do you justify the following:.

Inquisitor

Noone said anything about a trinity. You don't have to have a trinity if Jesus is God. - Sirona

That's like asking people to explain what genitals are, without using the word "sex" or "reproduction".

We cannot possibly talk about the nature of the Son of God WITHOUT discussing the arguments for or against the Trinity. I mean if you think about it, the Trinity debate stems from the juicy debacle on the identity of Jesus Christ. It has less to do with whether or not the Holy Ghost is God.

You quote scriptures that lend support to the view that Jesus is God, scriptures that the Athanasian camp from antiquity would have quoted as well. This is nothing new. It is no revelation. Those same scriptures can be successfully explained away if you go by a Arian perspective of the texts.

INQ

48

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 5-20-07 WT Review (Humbly Submit)

by blondie in

humbly submitting to loving shepherds.

*** w87 6/15 p. 15 par.

500-501 par.

Inquisitor

11) Today, Jesus directs us by means of "the faithful and discreet slave," represented by its Governing Body and the appointed elders. (Matthew 24:45) Out of respect for "the chief shepherd," Jesus Christ, we heed Paul's counsel: "Have regard for those who are working hard among you and presiding over you in the Lord and admonishing you."-1 Peter 5:4; 1 Thessalonians 5:12; 1 Timothy 5:17.

If you respect Chief Shepherd Jesus Christ, you will do what Bethel Elder Jesus Manuel Cano tells you to do. After all, it was the Holy Spirit that saw his appointment to such an hallowed office. So if Elder Cano says he needs to "deaden your body member" for you, you let him "work hard", "admonishing" you, setting you "straight".

12) A second reason for cooperatingwith Christian overseers is that "they are keeping watch over [our] souls." If they detect anything in our attitude or behavior that might endanger our spirituality, they are quick to give us needed counsel with a view to our readjustment. (Galatians 6:1) The Greek word translated "keeping watch" literally means "abstaining from sleep." According to one Bible scholar, it "implies the unflagging vigilance of the shepherd." In addition to their maintaining spiritual vigilance, elders may even lose sleep out of concern for our spiritual well-being. Should we not willingly cooperate with such loving undershepherds, who do their best to imitate the tender care given by Jesus Christ, "the great shepherd of the sheep"?-Hebrews 13:20.

Elder Cano must have lost sleep over all those young men he failed to inseminate with his brand of spiritual healing eh? Oh yes, we should be very willing to cooperate with "loving" undershepherds like him. Nothing like some good predatory sex to help young boys grow into well-adjusted Christian men.

Sorry, I know there are some decent, non-pedophilic elders in the JW organization. But this article is undoubtedly aimed at re-affirming the authority of nasty elders as well as competent ones. My rant shows how a sweeping call for unconditional RnF submission to spiritual shepherds is seriously flawed and dangerous.

Consequently, I resent this Sunday's mind-numbing exercise.

INQ

15

Jesus, Michael, archangels - People who live in glass houses shouldn't....

by Inquisitor in

jesus may not be archangel michael (as the wts teaches), but it is still conceivable that he may be an archangel.

the arguments often heard on jwd are very adamant that the role of archangelship is sooooo below his lofty reach.

but is there valid scriptural proof that it is so?

Inquisitor

Having read Narkissos' post, it would seem that any effort to seriously identify Michael the Archangel must draw on Apocryphal scriptures. WITHOUT the Apocryphal reference, the passing mention of Michael in the Biblical canon is not sufficient to insist that Jesus is not an Archangel.

It is easy to prove (using Hebrews) that Jesus is not an angel per se, but there is nothing explicit to imply that he doesn't hold the rank of Archangel (does Archangel describe the rank or nature of the celestial creature? If it is a rank/title, then even one the only-begotten Son could conceivably hold such a rank). Unless, one accepts the Apocrypha's dichotomy of Archangels and Son of God/Word.

But here's where it gets interesting: MOST Protestant/Evangelical/"true Christians" reject the Apocrypha as a spiritual authority. Will they* then heartily embrace the Apocrypha just to score some payback points against JW beliefs?

INQ

*not referring to anyone specific on JWD

p.s. With all this said, I still admit that equating Michael with Jesus, as JWs do, is rather dubious. Relying on canonical scripture alone, one could be confident that Jesus isn't an angel, but confidence that he isn't an Archangel depends upon a Trinitarian premise.

15

Jesus, Michael, archangels - People who live in glass houses shouldn't....

by Inquisitor in

jesus may not be archangel michael (as the wts teaches), but it is still conceivable that he may be an archangel.

the arguments often heard on jwd are very adamant that the role of archangelship is sooooo below his lofty reach.

but is there valid scriptural proof that it is so?

Inquisitor

I also don't think you have to have a Trinitarian agenda if you try to prove JWs wrong on this one. Lovelylil was actually a unitarian. - Zico

You make a good point Zico. I apologize for the thoughtless ad hominem attack, esp to lovelylil. My critique of their arguments however, stays.

INQ

15

Jesus, Michael, archangels - People who live in glass houses shouldn't....

by Inquisitor in

jesus may not be archangel michael (as the wts teaches), but it is still conceivable that he may be an archangel.

the arguments often heard on jwd are very adamant that the role of archangelship is sooooo below his lofty reach.

but is there valid scriptural proof that it is so?

Inquisitor

Dear glenster,

I say this in the nicest way possible: Could you send your post to Jenny Craigand then re-post it in 6 months?

I don't mind long posts that are relevant to the issues I've raised. You've chosen instead to adopt a rather preachy one, telling us why JWs and their leaders are such gawd-awful creatures. They are, but that's beside the point! There is a reason I've posted my views in point form: It allows you to address each point in a coherent manner, if you should so desire.

Instead you've gone on and on to the ass-end of boredom. Ok that was a bit harsh. You did make one or two astute observations as I have already noted in my reply to NewTruth aka Jesus.

We don't know of the Arians who showed up a couple of centuries later to have any such early followers to refer to...

Also the Arians aren't Indo-Iranians. They're not lost and mysterius. You may not know much about the Arians as yet, but that doesn't necessarily mean no one else does.

Read When Jesus Became God - The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome by Richard E. Rubenstein. Perhaps then you will have more than just a miserable Lucian of Antioch to cite from a loose-content online encyclopedia plagued with non-expert editing.

BInq, where B stands for Bitchy