My dad actually has a copy of The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses, as well as some other fairly subversive literature, all of which I've gone through when nobody else was around. What he's doing with it I don't know, but some of it is really eye-opening.
MuadDib
JoinedPosts by MuadDib
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52
How would JWs run a country if they had one?
by Spectrum incan anybody imagine what it would be like to live in a country run by jws?
what would they call it?
what laws would they have?
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Another experience story about leaving the society
by enderby ini was raised a dub, though not born one.
my mother had told the woman her story about studying in the 70's and that she believed the dubs were on to something but just didn't really care.
what i need are some dub friends.
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MuadDib
Great story, man - well presented and actually very similar to my own. For me it wasn't the methodological shortcomings of the literature so much as the sheer factual inaccuracy presented therein that prompted me to leave. I've always loved history and was of course taught that the Bible is history, word-for-word, so of course I was shocked when I took ancient history courses and discovered that there is no archaeological evidence for the Exodus or the establishment of Israel as outlined in the Bible, that there is no evidence whatsoever for a worldwide Deluge, that most of Genesis betrays heavy cultural influence from ancient near eastern mythologies, that the Prophetic books of the Bible are dated much, much later than the Witnesses say they are, that humanity is eons older than six thousand years, the 607/586 thing, and so on. I spoke to my dad about it - never let on how much I was learning, though - and he pointed me to the Aid to Bible Understanding, which is of course chock-full of crap that nobody could buy into if they knew the other side. So there it was.
I would like to know more about the reaction you got from the Elders when you showed them your information. I have plenty to give them if they want to see it, but others on this board have warned me that presenting them with such evidence is likely to get me DFd and I don't want that, for the sake of my family.
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what is a born again christina?
by tetrapod.sapien inwell, typically, a born again christina is a guy who is at the end of his tether, and doesn't give a f*ck about much anymore, and is depressed and cuts himself.
and then one day, on just a typical weekday, he meets a girl named christina, and she is so sweet and she gives him his faith again.
his faith in humanity and the universe.
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MuadDib
Funny, I too know a sweet and lovely Christina who makes me feel quite the same way.
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Trends within the organization
by MuadDib ina little background before i get to my main thought.
first of all: my dad is a pretty pedantic guy and he likes to keep track of all the stats in the annual statistical summary of the society - numbers in different countries, which countries grow and which shrink, that sort of thing.
he got me into it too, a few years ago, and i've noticed (as i'm sure many of you have) the general downward trend in membership in the western world - north america and europe - and the complimentary growth in the third world - especially africa.
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MuadDib
There's a black guy? Hmm, don't remember that. And you'll have to define "quite young" for me, as I don't think any of the members were under 50, although I suppose I might be wrong about that too.
Good point about the internet too. I suppose growth will slow the more educated and informed people become, the standards for such things being lower in the Third World than over here. Here's hoping anyway.
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Looking for some advice
by MuadDib ini'm a young man raised in the jws, been meaning to get the hell out of dodge for a few years now (basically ever since starting a history degree and learning why the jw conception of history, science, and indeed of reality is so utterly nonsensical, in addition to having discovered girls and fun).
i have no qualms about leaving the organization, i don't care what the elders or anyone else think about my decision - with the exception of my family.
i love my family deeply and i know that my decision will really hurt them, especially my mother (a full-time pioneer), and this is making me hesitate to do what i know needs to be done in addition to causing me a lot of worry and stress.
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MuadDib
Damn, I hadn't thought of that. What would be something for me to say to them then? I don't think they'd be satisfied if I told them I just wasn't feeling it anymore.
I'm thinking more and more about a DA letter, which was a totally unfamiliar concept to me until I read a few threads about it here. If I simply requested not to be known as a JW anymore, and explained my reasons in a letter, wouldn't that do the trick? I'd still get an announcement, but as long as it reflected on myself and not on my parents I think I'd be alright with it.
On another note - skipped both days of the circuit assembly. Score!
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I did a search on JWs and...
by Finally-Free ini found this on the cia site.
the jws are mentioned in the last paragraph.
anyone know if there's any truth to this?.
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MuadDib
I remember hearing some time ago about KGB men who came out of the woodwork when the USSR collapsed. Apparently the KGB had infiltrated the JWs in West Germany and some other European places, and their moles had risen to positions of relative importance - COs and prominent Elders, with wives and children who had no idea daddy worked for the Commies. It only makes sense for the Soviets to consider that the West might do the same to them and plant agents in an organization full of well-meaning dimwits. I didn't think of it at the time, but it's pretty funny now to consider that Jehovah's active spirit couldn't get around the KGB's forged paperwork division.
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Trends within the organization
by MuadDib ina little background before i get to my main thought.
first of all: my dad is a pretty pedantic guy and he likes to keep track of all the stats in the annual statistical summary of the society - numbers in different countries, which countries grow and which shrink, that sort of thing.
he got me into it too, a few years ago, and i've noticed (as i'm sure many of you have) the general downward trend in membership in the western world - north america and europe - and the complimentary growth in the third world - especially africa.
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MuadDib
A little background before I get to my main thought. First of all: my dad is a pretty pedantic guy and he likes to keep track of all the stats in the annual statistical summary of the Society - numbers in different countries, which countries grow and which shrink, that sort of thing. He got me into it too, a few years ago, and I've noticed (as I'm sure many of you have) the general downward trend in membership in the Western world - North America and Europe - and the complimentary growth in the Third World - especially Africa. Second: at a bookstudy a few months ago, our conductor produced information on the current members of the Governing Body. All white, all American (maybe a couple of West Europeans, I can't really remember) and all old (couple of centenarians even). I was unimpressed - not very many tribes, nations, peoples, or tongues represented there.
Putting this information together - how likely do you think we are to see a growing Third World influence over the Society? The rich white guys run the show now, but they're getting on and their demographic is shrinking as a proportion of adherents while poorer people of different ethnicities are growing in preponderance and, presumably, influence. This is a trend that's influencing other religions as well, with Anglican dioceses in Africa sending priests to serve in England and South American Catholics being considered for the position of Pope. So are we bound to see some brown or black faces on future incarnations of the Governing Body? Will Bethels in the Third World become the sites of more printing or administrative operations? Will doctrine maybe be influenced by the contribution of people from non-Western cultures? Or will the trend be resisted to the last by the classes entrenched in power over the organization?
It's not like I really care, I just think it would be neat if there was some huge schism in the JWs as a result of these kinds of things. If nothing else, maybe it would show that God's chosen religion is subject to the same forces and trends as the rest of the world.
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Okay: Who is Barb & What's the "news"?
by lynnmelo in.
i know no one really knows what the content of the "news" is, but i don't even know what news you guys are waiting for.
i've been reading some posts referencing "barb" and "the news," so i wasn't wondering if someone could give me some background (i've looked a few pages back and can't find anything).. thanks.
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MuadDib
"I think I may have connected a dot or two and come up with a Matisse. If the way my thoughts are running is in line with the real deal this may be the break in the hull of Constitutionalized protections for institutional religion—and tilting of the scales in favor of the individual—that a lot of religious people have been waiting for. It may eventually be much bigger news than for just JWs, but JWs will be in the mix."
I've often thought of what the internal reaction to such a thing would be. Obviously the JWs are going to take any indication of such a thing as the onset of the scarlet-coloured beast's attack on Babylon the Great - aka the destruction of all world religions by secular governments. It would be neat to see how that would shake them up, especially when nothing really happened... probably another aggressive campaign by the Society ala 1975, lots of people selling their houses and pulling their kids out of school, and then leaving in droves after the fallout from the non-event.
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Something I have noticed
by MuadDib inthe last few district conventions i've been to, i haven't really been paying attention.
at lunchtime i'd kind of just keep to myself and wander around.
and i started picking up on something.
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MuadDib
The last few district conventions I've been to, I haven't really been paying attention. At lunchtime I'd kind of just keep to myself and wander around. And I started picking up on something. Young Jehovah's Witness guys, at least in my corner of the world, are pretty much a bunch of duds. They look right at home in the shirt/tie/handbag combo and you just can't picture them lounging around with a brew playing cards and telling dirty jokes, or dancing at the bar, or whatever. And all these guys are walking around with these GORGEOUS girls on their arms! The kind of girls where you get nervous just thinking about what it might be like to consider maybe talking to them. It's unbelievable.
So what's the deal? Is it some kind of cruel joke on the part of the universe, sequestering all these amazing women in this sadistically repressed religion? Do these unattainable young beauties just swoon over the prospect of landing the guy working the amp Wednesday nights at the Hall? Is there some kind of correlation between penis size and number of hours spent in service? Or are these guys just the only option open to these girls so they take what they can get? It's really kind of weird. Makes me wonder if I should shave, drop out of school, and start door-knocking again... might be worth it to wake up next to one of these ladies every day. Don't think I haven't thought this over.
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A question for all the new ones
by Lady Lee inwhat made you decide to post?.
i know some lurk for a while - sometimes a long while.
others find the site and do a bit of reading and sign and post immediately.
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MuadDib
I didn't lurk around or anything. I was reading about JWs on Wikipedia, just to see what a reasonably balanced outside appraisal of the religion would look like, and followed their link to this page. I saw quite a few threads that seemed to indicate this would be a place where I could find people with similar experiences to my own, and it occurred to me that a messageboard would be an ideal medium for expressing my thoughts and working my way through my issues by discussing them with others. So I signed up and here I am. I already feel better for it - no wonder the Society warns us about places like this all the time.