Posts by whyizit

11

Confused over JW friend's behavior: (I'm not a JW)

by whyizit in

jw
friends

i invited a jw friend of mine to a christian retreat, and she did go.

it was a small group.

she seemed to enjoy herself.

whyizit

Great advice! Especially about the 144,000. When we were discussing thi topic, I wish I had thought about that question. it was like a game of "who's on first". I kept asking where the Bible says their are two classes of Christians. Every where it says Saints or Holy Ones, that is the 144,000, was her reply. Where does Jesus say that the NT is only for the 144,000 mentioned in Rev.? That will become clearer as we study deeper... If the OT is for Jews, and the NT is for 144,000, where do YOU fit in at all? Seems none of the Bible was written for you, you would go through a lot less stress and work (like cleaning and building the "earthly paradise" with no power tools, for a bunch of non-JWs who did whatever they wanted, including slamming the door in your face), and YOU would STILL get the same reward as the rest of them anyway--Resurrection to earth. Except they would already have a nice home built for you when you get back. She didn't have much in defense of that.

Something tells me she is getting a little disenchanted with the WTS. Whenever I ask what her favorite thing is about it, it usually revolves around lunch with the ladies. She has let it slip how boring the meetings are, and the assemblies. Maybe since she becamse baptized, she isn't getting the "love bombing" and feels more pressure. It seems to me that she is trying to find a connection outside of the WTS. Or at least trying to find someone she really likes to be in with her. She says she doesn't have many friendships in her own age bracket and finds it hard to make any.

Though she seems to be very indoctrinated, she also seems very willing and interested in questions that seem to prove them wrong. Evidently someone got to her about the "cross vs. pole" argument. She didn't even seem interested in discussing it and dismissed it as being unimportant. Maybe to you, but it seems important to your religious leaders, because it is discussed in ever magazine you've ever handed me!

Hmmm. I really don't know what to think. I'm hoping the thought process is kicking in and she is looking for a way out, even if it is subconsciously at this point.

11

Confused over JW friend's behavior: (I'm not a JW)

by whyizit in

jw
friends

i invited a jw friend of mine to a christian retreat, and she did go.

it was a small group.

she seemed to enjoy herself.

whyizit

I invited a JW friend of mine to a Christian retreat, and she did go. It was a small group. She seemed to enjoy herself. Even participated some. Never mentioned a thing about being a JW until she was ready to leave, when she briefly said something about her KH. No gasps or warnings about it being a "cult". Perhaps that is why she waited until the last minute to even bring it up.

She was baptised a little over a year now. The only one of her friends or family that is involved. Now she is trying to have "studies" with us. I agreed, but only if we use the Bible only, no WTS literature. Loose promise on her part, because she conveniently brings notes from WT materials and down plays reading the Bible alone EVERY time! Can't do that, oh, no!

Any way, she donated a pretty nice little sum to the group ministry of "Christendom" folks she spent the weekend with. The whole thing has me wondering: Is she in? Is she out? Or is she straddling the fence? Does this mean anything at all?

SHe invited me to the KH, which I will go. (Don't worry, I am on to the whole mind control tactics and cult methods.)

We are suppose to talk about the soul together. She defined it as " breathing physical body". Stating that no where in the Bible will I find "immortal soul" (yeah, but you don't find "paradise earth" either, but it doesn't stop JWs from spouting that a zillion times a day). She said the Bible will never indicate that the soul is anything other than a breathing body.

Would love to hear your opinions and advice on this topic.

Thanks!

14

Anyone ever 'effectively' protest Jehovah's Witnesses?

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

ever hold a peaceful protest outside a convention, kingdom hall, or otherwise, that had any serious positive outcome?.

what have you found effective in reaching your former brothers and sisters, without coming off as a nafarious 'opposer of jehovah'?.

this is asked in all seriousness, as my opinion is that most efforts fail nearly 100%.

whyizit

I do have a couple of ideas:

More people learning how to ask thought provoking questions (in a kind way) at the door.

Bill boards right at the entrance of KH's. Not only would JWs get an eye full, so would other passer-by's and visitors who might be toying with the idea of becoming involved. Not to mention JWs who, even though told to avert their eyes, would surely end up reading the info. anyway. It's like telling someone not to think about zebras....

If you could only enlist the neighbors and get a contract to rent the bill board exclusively forever. Lest the WTS try to interfere. It's a lovely dream!

31

Question about 70 yr. excile:

by whyizit in

was discussing how secular references point to destruction of jerusalem in 586/7 with a jw.

used kiss method of counting back the kings from babylonian fall (according to wt daniel book on page 50-51, says it was 539.).

not sure what this person meant.

whyizit

Was discussing how secular references point to destruction of Jerusalem in 586/7 with a JW. Used KISS method of counting back the kings from Babylonian fall (according to WT Daniel book on page 50-51, says it was 539.).

Not sure what this person meant. They said I must think the Jewish excile occurred before the temple was burned. After also trying to claim there was another king no one knew about until 100 yrs ago (Belshazzar?), they also tried to say the Bible supports 70 yr. excile, but if the fall of Jerusalem happened in 586/7, then that would mean the Jews were exciled for 47 yrs., not 70.

What??!!!!

Can someone explain this to me, so I can figure out what the heck they are talking about?

And I would love solid references I could have this person look in to that are available at any library in the USA. Don't want to get accused of handing them "apostate" materials, don't you know!

Why is it that the WTS uses secular references from Catholic Encyclopedias, etc...to support all kinds of WT doctrines (many taken completely out of context), yet this one date, which is not in the Bible, cannot be supported by secular sources? HUH???!!!!

16

JW friend wants to tell me about Christ's return in 1914....Advice needed!

by whyizit in

my long time friend recently took the plunge (baptized) and is now trying to recruit me.

one of the first things she told me is how all the "other religions" should be carefully inspected, because they are all wrong, in a nut shell.

so, i asked the obvious: i'm not concerned with all the others, i'm here to talk about your's.

whyizit

My long time friend recently took the plunge (baptized) and is now trying to recruit me. One of the first things she told me is how all the "other religions" should be carefully inspected, because they are all wrong, in a nut shell. So, I asked the obvious: I'm not concerned with all the others, I'm here to talk about YOUR'S. You keep mentioneing these fellows on the GB, who are they? No answer. How many are there? Doesn't know. How were they "elected"? By Jehovah, of course. They have to be anointed. There was a Pres. and now there is a GB. Why did that happen? Wo changed it from a Pres. to a GB? Do they concult the other anointed ones when making decisions?

For the past several weeks, I asked the same questions, thinking it is wise to know about the leaders of an Org., as SHE suggested! But NO answers! No info.! What is up with THAT?!

Now, she insists that she will get me the info., but she really thinks things will fall in place if I just hear about how Christ returned in 1914. It's all in Daniel. Hmmmm.... a LONG time ago she gave me the 5th Chapter of a Book (Proclaimer's) that stated the founder of the JWs proclaimed the return of Christ occurred in 1874.....and this was proclaimed as a fact for over 30 yrs., I believe! That chapter stated Russell proclaimed that as the LORD's truth, not his own. Did Jehovah screw up the date for His own Son's return? What did Jesus think when He returned and found the JWs proclaiming He already returned in 1874???

These are the obvious questions. But you know what? You all know the schpeel she is going to feed me, you know the questions I am going to have, and you know most likely what kind of BS she is going to feed me. If you could suggest what is going to happen and effective ways to respond, I would love the advice. I don't want to be mean and nasty. I want her to start thinking about some of this. No need to be insulting or sarcastic. Just ask innocent questions that she never thought of before. (Not what is in the JW sales book: Reasoning Away The Scriptures.)

Thanks for any advice you have!

Whyizit

13

Need help: JW friend links every NT teaching to 144,000 only

by whyizit in

you know what i mean: every time she reads a passage in the nt, she instantly applies it to the 144,000 chosen anointed ones.

even though there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to make that connection.

i have even asked how her gurus have made that connection biblically.

whyizit

You know what I mean: Every time she reads a passage in the NT, she instantly applies it to the 144,000 chosen anointed ones. Even though there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to make that connection. I have even asked how her gurus have made that connection BIBLICALLY. She admits that she can't really tell me BIBLICALLY, because you just have to study everything JWs teach and then it becomes so apparent.....

I truly think if I could somehow come up with something she could understand, that would just be glaring about how ridiculous it is to think that the 144,000 in Rev. are the ones spoken to in the NT, that it might break through the mind control. That is the concept that keeps her tied down. Nothing else seems to matter, we just keep coming back to that.

I can't really find anything that deals directly with that problem. Someone who is so tied up in the anointed, chosen, holy ones of the NT being the 144,000. Yes, they deal with a lot of other aspects. But I can't seem to get those to make sense, without dealing first with the fact that the ones spoken to in the NT just might be CHRISTIANS who follow Christ in general, and not an elite group of special Christians.

I was hoping someone might be able to send me some ideas to help address this. Also, she is wanting to talk to me about the 1914 issue (when Jesus returned and only the JWs knew it). I have a lot of info. on that as well, but was wondering if you have any really good things I could ask.

Thanks for any help you can give me!

Whyizit (so frustrating!) But I knew that it would be going in!

25

Hi. Just popping in with an observation Id like to share and any feedback Thanx.

by chrisjoel in

jw
friends

i really havent been on here in a while, but recently a coworker, who i respect, told me of an "incident" that happened that i really cant explain..so for the hel lof it ..thought id share :).

for clarity here some background on my friend/coworker:he is a siek indian, the type that wear a turbin/bushy beard, very sensitive as to being "brown" in an agressive way ie: not the type to take any crap from anyone..., very smart, anyways he is about to get married now, but, 3 yrs ago in his dorm room at the university of windsor in ont canada his roommate left for the evening.

he takes a shower, then goes to the mirror to shave and says from the corner of his eye he sees a flash of "something" go by him very quckly/ faintly.

whyizit

The mind can be tricky sometimes. I remember as a kid, in the mid-west, we would sign up to de-tassel corn. For about two - three weeks straight we would ride a bus all over the state in the hot sun and pull tassels off of corn so it would not pollinate. I remember sitting on the bus at the end of the day and talking to the other kids, and I would have to take a second glance up, because I swore I could see corn growing in the aisle of the bus. I thought it was too much sun, but then one of the other kids said he thought he was spending too much time in the corn, because he kept seeing it growing all over the place. Turns out a group of us were having the same "dellusion".

15

My undercover saga - Part 1

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

actually, this is part 8 or 9, i can't remember, but i thought i would number them from now on.. i am an active witness, and i want to help my friends and family.

i have had some success in trying to get them to reason, because i always state at the outset, and at the end of the conversation, that i support the faithful slave and gb no matter what.. so since i have a big vehicle, some of the older ones asked me to take them to special assembly day this past weekend.

i had already been, and i told you all about it, but i agreed.

whyizit

This is EXACTLY the kind of thing people both in and out of the WTS need! We need to see how to slip things into conversations that will have an impact. No JW in their right mind is ever going to let it show that they are really moved by the questions and ponderings, but deep down, it is stirring them up.

Keep up the great work, and please keep sharing your experience with us.

Gratefully,

Whyizit

4

Looking for which WT article this phrase appeared in:

by whyizit in

"hence, according to god's will for the creature , in a resurrection one is restored or recreated in either a human or a spirit body and yet retains his personal identity by the setting in motion again of the distinctive life-pattern of that individual.".

.

i would like to be able to find which wts book or magazine this quote was taken from.

whyizit

"Hence, according to God's will for the creature , in a resurrection one is restored or recreated in either a human or a spirit body and yet retains his personal identity by the setting in motion again of the distinctive life-pattern of that individual."

I would like to be able to find which WTS book or magazine this quote was taken from. If you can help me, I would really appreciate it.

35

Did NOAH take WHALES into the ARK?

by african GB Member in

jw
friends

blue whale is the largest animal on earth,.... it would take huge cranes and a lot of manpower to carry one of those animals,.... how did noah achieve this?.

did he have cranes and chains?.

did he have a large enough aquarium on board, with salt water?.

whyizit

Wouldn't seem necessary to take whales on the ark, since there was plenty of water to go around. Larger animals could have been taken as babies. Did any of you see the replica of the Arc? Someone built it in Scotland or somewhere. I had an email showing pictures of it, but that's been a long time ago.