When I was an elder (some years ago), our CO mentioned that in another circuit, a married couple were reinstated after a long review. He said that those DF'd on on apostasy, had to wait longer than those convicted on most other "sins!" Go figure!
cyberguy
JoinedPosts by cyberguy
-
16
Does anyone know someone DF'd for Apostasy that ended up going back?
by confusedjw ini've only heard of one and was wondering......
-
-
-
30
Neo-Babylonian Chronology and the Egibi Business House
by VM44 ini am somewhat shocked right now, although i know i probably should not be, i will explain in this post later.. .
all this information is contained in carl olof jonsson's excellent book, the gentile times reconsidered, 4th edition, pages 122-125.. .
it turns out that throughout the neo-babylonian time frame, a business firm named the sons of egibi conducted business, and left some three or four thousand record tables contained in earthen jars covered with bitumen.. .
-
-
cyberguy
Great post, VM44! I would like to get Carl?s 4th edition soonest! I checked Amazon, and the earlier version is sited, but I got a private email from Carl some time ago, that he was releasing an update. Where?s the best place to get it?
Here?s a post from an email I got from Carl (I'm sure he won't mind), that I?m not sure made it into the latest edition. It is an extremely devastating blow to JW 1914-chronology, especially so, since it comes from their own Isaiah Commentary!
THE 70 YEARS FOR TYRE (ISAIAH 23:15)
(August 17, 2000)
It's interesting that in this latest response from the London branch office (June 29, 2000), the Society refers you to Isaiah's prophecy on the 70 years for Tyre! As you know, they believe this 70-year period is the same as that in Jer. 25:11-12 and 29:10. Yet, as you may already have noticed, in their recent commentary on ISAIAH'S PROPHECY released this summer they explain the period in a very different and interesting way. Quoting Isa. 23:15 about the 70 years for Tyre, they go on to say on p. 253:"True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia's greatest domination?when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above 'the stars of God.' (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble."
Their letter to you reflects to some extent these remarkable statements, which seem clearly to involve several important admissions:
1) The 70 years referred to the period of "Babylonia's greatest domination", i.e., they meant "seventy years for Babylon" (Jer. 29:10)!
2) This 70-year period of domination ended at the fall of the Babylonian Empire in 539 B.C.E.!
3) When applied to the servitude of individual nations, the 70 years must be understood as a "round" number, because different nations were subjected to Babylon "at different times."All of this is exactly what I argued in my book and which they until now have emphatically denied!
It will be interesting to see if these admissions represent a cautious beginning of a rethinking about their chronology, or if it is the author(s) only who have subtly tried to insert their own understanding into the book. Anyway, I guess that they will soon get in trouble with the new statements on the 70 years, as Witnesses undoubtedly will begin to write to them and ask why the 70 years are applied so differently in the case of Tyre!
Personally, I feel strongly that the 70 years for Tyre do not refer to the same period as the 70 years "for Babylon". As I suggested in The Gentile Times Reconsidered, I tend to agree with those who apply the period to c. 700-630 BCE. (GTR-3, p. 195, note 7) Sennacherib conquered Phoenicia, including Tyre as the capital of the area, in 701 BCE and turned Phoenicia into an Assyrian vassal province. The king of Tyre had to flee to Cyprus, where he died in 694 BCE. After Sennacherib?s conquest, Tyre ceased to be the center of the Tyrian commercial empire, which until then had embraced the coastal regions of the Mediterranean. This role was then on gradually taken over by Carthage. Only toward the end of the long reign of Ashurbanipal (669-627 BCE) was Tyre able to regain its former strength and gradually reestablish itself as the leading city on the Phoenician coast. Thus, in the period c. 700-630 BCE, Tyre was truly "forgotten seventy years", after which period it once again turned "to her hire" and again began to "commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth," exactly as Isaiah had predicted. (Isa. 23:15-18)
The standard work on the history of Tyre is H. Jacob Katzenstein, The History of Tyre (Jerusalem, 1973. A new revised edition was published in 1997). It is a very thorough and informative work, and his information on this period and his comments on Isaiah 23 agree very well with the application of the 70 years to c. 700-630 BC.
Carl Olof Jonsson
-
-
-
cyberguy
I believe that their 1914 teaching is the greatest "weakest link." Break that, and the whole "tower" falls!
-
37
Can The Watchtower Society Be Reformed?
by Cameron in.
what about www.jwreform.org ?.
don at www.captivesofaconcept.com
-
-
cyberguy
The basic answer is NO! Many people have tried and failed, therefore, I feel it is simply impossible!
-
35
"Babylon the Great", who is she?
by JH inin the book of revelation, talking about things to come, babylone the great is to be destroyed, in one hour.. .
some think that babylon the great symbolizes america, while others like the jw's say it's the false relgions that will be destroyed by the un.... .
who do you think babylon the great represents?.
-
-
cyberguy
Thanks Leolaia, I'm looking forward to a further explanation soonest!
-
35
"Babylon the Great", who is she?
by JH inin the book of revelation, talking about things to come, babylone the great is to be destroyed, in one hour.. .
some think that babylon the great symbolizes america, while others like the jw's say it's the false relgions that will be destroyed by the un.... .
who do you think babylon the great represents?.
-
-
cyberguy
Hey Leoloaia and Narkissos!
I?ve appreciated many of your posts over the years, but I?m afraid I don?t follow some of your conclusions here; however, I?m open to further expressions from you, to help me see more clearly, your conclusions (I'm all "ears").
My take is that the ?woman? is not Rome, but rather, the ?Christian? amalgamation of Church and State. She isn?t the ?seven mountains,? Rome, but she ?sits on top? of the "seven mountains" (Rev. 17:9?this seems like a different entity from the "woman"). I realize that early ?church fathers? may have believed her to be Rome, but take another look at the context! Another point to consider is that, when she falls, Rev. 18:2, the ?kings of the earth,? are still in existence (Rev. 18:3).
Anyway, I?m not trying to get into an argument here, but rather, to get a better understanding of the subject. So please, enlighten me, where I?m not seeing the complete picture! Thanks again, for your fine comments; I?ve enjoyed many of your posts over the years!
Mahalo,
Cyber
-
35
"Babylon the Great", who is she?
by JH inin the book of revelation, talking about things to come, babylone the great is to be destroyed, in one hour.. .
some think that babylon the great symbolizes america, while others like the jw's say it's the false relgions that will be destroyed by the un.... .
who do you think babylon the great represents?.
-
-
cyberguy
Here?s another twist; the ?woman? in Rev. 12, might be the same ?woman? mentioned in Rev. 17. The ?woman? began as the Jewish system that produced the ?male child,? the promised Messiah. When the New Covenant became active and the Mosaic Law was terminated, the ?woman? continued as the Christen system. Rev. 12:6 says that she ?fled into the wilderness,? initially under God?s protection; no mention is made that she leaves the "wilderness." However, later, she comes out of the ?wilderness,? but now as a ?harlot? (Rev. 17). This seems to correspond to period when the ?Christian Church? became the state religion, even seating and dethroning Kings.
-
30
Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-6-05 WT Study (Abbreviated)
by blondie incomments you will not hear at the march 6, 2005 wt study (february 1, 2005 issue date)
review comments
will be in black and parentheses ().
-
-
cyberguy
Thanks Blondie, for your persistent reviews of the Craptower! I read all your reviews, but can?t comment too much, not because I am not interested, but because the pain that surfaces is so great that I have to switch my mind to something else; if I don?t, I?m afraid I?ll need to get special help and lots of drugs (like a large percentage of JW?s currently do, like my brother, an elder (who no longer talks to me), wife, and several of his kids?all on ?happy? drugs). Thanks again for your review, since I no longer read the Craptower.
-
10
Do you witness more now?
by cyberguy ini just got off the phone with a young, x-pioneer, after a lengthy discussion (3+ hours) about the truth about the ?truth!?
he?s married, with 3 young children, but is very confused as to what to do, as his family hasn?t been activity supporting the kingdumb hall (i.e., borg)!
i believe, i might be ?witnessing?
-
-
cyberguy
I just got off the phone with a young, x-Pioneer, after a lengthy discussion (3+ hours) about the truth about the ?truth!? He?s married, with 3 young children, but is very confused as to what to do, as his family hasn?t been activity supporting the Kingdumb Hall (i.e., BORG)! I believe, I might be ?witnessing? more now than when I was a JW! However, I feel extremely impelled to speak-out to those I believe might have a listening ear (borderline JW?s and other interested ones), and show them the great deception they?ve been subjected to within "Witnessdumb!" How many have you fine folks are ?preaching? the real ?good news? now, more than when you were a JW?
Cyber :)
-
5
Well here's some good news!!
by Puternut inyou may have read my post about the loss of our brother dave.
well dave isn't df'd or da'd.
he faded out as an elder, and so did his wife.
-
-
cyberguy
Interesting, Puternut! Is this something happing in Hawaii? We'll have to meet-up sometime! I'm on Oahu, North Shore, bro!