there is overwhelming evidence that the spiritual founder of the wts, c.t.
russell, was a prominent free mason in the pittsburgh community.
he went so far as to declare: "i am a free mason" in several of his lectures.
kid-A,
I've never read anything substantial that discredits Russell's own testimony as regards Miracle Wheat, or that he was a Freemason. There's a lot of gobbledegook out there for people to try and connect the dots and make him out to be something he wasn't, but the proof is lacking, I am afraid.
robert king has a new anti-org book out, so it looks like he is the new seer to the world from what he says.
isn't this the "you know" that used to plague the boards?
here we go with the watchtower is right but all the leaders are wrong, so i reluctantly have to write this book so all will know that i am a prophet!
Randy, it is Robert King/You Know/e-watchman. I made some brief comments in this thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/14/98657/1.ashx
I've also corresponded with him in the last few months. His tone is far different. He's been disfellowshipped. He actually apologized to me for being such a prick back in, as he put it, his "rough and tumble You Know days."
I have all the H2O archives on CD-ROM. I could bring back any of YK's posts. This board has some of his posts as well. Back in May of 2001 I posted this thread about him: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/6072/1.ashx
His greatest time was in the summer/fall of 1999 when he posted gigantic amounts of 'evidence' that Y2K had the potential to wipe out human life as we know it. Yep, I have all those threads. And BTW, his nickname for me was "Cykness." ;)
apparently, god is not a theater fan .
he prefers television
hollywood pat robertson on sunday said that hurricane katrina was gods way of expressing its anger at the academy of television arts and sciences for its selection of ellen degeneres to host this years emmy awards.
the article itself is satire
Yeah, I doubt even an extremist senile man such as Robertson would utter such ridiculousness in broadcast TV. Edited to add: Gary Bauer might, but not P.R.
there is overwhelming evidence that the spiritual founder of the wts, c.t.
russell, was a prominent free mason in the pittsburgh community.
he went so far as to declare: "i am a free mason" in several of his lectures.
C T Russel also sold his followers and others his MIRACLE WHEAT
Actually, Russell never made a thin dime on Miracle Wheat. After it had been tested and gradiose comments made about it, he allowed it to be advertised in his magazines. But Russell himself never profited from its sale.
"As respects my business dealings, ... I need not remind you that American Courts are very strict and that if anybody feels that I have wronged him out of a dollar, he would have no difficulty in haling me into Court. You have my assurance dear Brother, that I do not owe any man on earth a penny and that I have never taken a penny from anyone unjustly. On the contrary, as you know, I have spent several small fortunes in seeking to do good to my fellow-man?in helping them to a better understanding of God and the Bible. Having once been an infidel myself, and having subsequently found that I had confused the teachings of the Bible with the teachings of creeds, and that the Bible's teaching is a glorious, grand doctrine, it has since been my business and pleasure to do all in my power to help fellow-mortals out of darkness and into true light... Really I care little for what men may say or think about me. Of course, such things are painful; but they are only what the Bible tells us will be more or less the experience of all who would be loyal to God and His Word." —1914; "Zion's Watch Tower", 15 September 1914, pg. 286
"'Miracle Wheat' is a new variety of wheat discovered and so named by a farmer at Fincastle, Va. I copied an item about it from a newspaper in my religious journal, which carries no advertisements. Three years later one of the readers wrote me that he had bought some of the miracle wheat at $1.25 per pound and found it very prolific?up to 3,000 grains from one seed. He sold some of it and donated to the society of which I am the president.
"The following year he and another donated 18 bushels, fixed the price at $1 per pound and asked that it be mentioned in my journal and that we bear the trouble of mailing it. I merely gave their reports and a copy of a report by a United States government expert. The wheat was sold and in all $1,800 was thus donated by these two friends to the work done last year amongst the heathen. No one ever complained of the wheat, and all were offered "money back" if not satisfied.
"If anybody has a microscope that will show anything wrong with this, we would like to have a look through it. We presume the wrong was that it was not 'raffled at 10 cents per grain,' or grab-bagged for at a church fair!" —1913; Tacoma (Washington) Tribune, 20 June, 1913
In 1904 Kent Stoner of Fincastle, Virginia (USA) discovered an unusually hearty strain of wheat growing in his field. He named it "Miracle Wheat". When presented at the Appalachian Exhibition, and the Tennessee State Fair in 1910, it won first prize both times. When Pastor Russell came to hear about this "Miracle Wheat" in 1908 he was excited! Having the "restitution of all things", (Acts 3:19) and the restoration of earth to perfection always on his mind, he believed this was another proof that "restitution" had begun. An associate of Pastor Russell's purchased a large amount of this "Miracle Wheat," and desired to have it sold and the proceeds donated to the spread of the truth. A notice appeared to this effect in The Watch Tower, where Bible Students, and any others interested, could purchase a pound of it for $1. Ultimately $1,800 was raised. Nobody was defrauded. Everyone was well informed. Even the US Government recognized something was special about the wheat. When ministers began to criticise Pastor Russell, he offered a return of money to anyone who requested this. Nobody asked for their money back. (http://www.pastor-russell.com/life/rich2.html)
one way to determine whether there is a god is to apply this well-established principle: what is made requires a maker.
the more complicated the thing made, the more capable the maker must be.. for example, look around your home.
tables, chairs, desks, beds, pots, pans, plates, and other eating utensils all require a maker, as do walls, floors, and ceilings.
The Creator then is also responsible for creating all the natural evils like diseases and parasites.
That's sorta what I was trying to get across when I posted those four scriptures up there. The Bible even says God is responsible for wickedness and suffering. It covers all bases. That's partly how JWs and Catholics get their "wait on Jehovah" or "put your trust in the Lord" crap.
i was checking outside about the trash to see if it had been taken out yet and left the door open so i could easily take the trash from inside , out.
as i was in the hall bathroom i hear the doorbell ring.
i peak around the corner wanting to pretend i am not here but alas i forgot to shut the front door.
Ron Rhodes? Ah, er, uh.... no, I don't think I'd go that route. Rhodes is a nincompoop and Stafford makes mincemeat outta a lot of his books.
Try printing out some of the articles on this page: http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/index2.htm
Also, UN scandal stuff is nice... I suppose. I'd also recommend, on blood and medical quackery, this page: www.ajwrb.org
for those born into the wts, do you ever feel resentment towards your folks for forcing this upon you?
i went through a stage of strong resentment and anger, but no longer feel this way.
i think they sincerely believed they were acting in my best interests.
No, never. My parents thought they were doing what was right - who can be blamed for that? Interestingly, my dad is the one who regrets bringing us up as Witnesses.
two of our friends (ex jws) came out of the org, about three years ago.
they went to an evangelical church, and have now settled in the salvation army.
the sa, does not have the bread and wine ceremony/service, and the wife, (her husband believes that they should partake of the bread and wine) has been prayerfully searching to see if they should really take of the bread and wine.
twinkle,
the only other church i have attended/had personal experience with was a church of the Abrahamic Faith (whose Pastor was Frank Toth, who posted here a couple of years ago, and was a Bethelite for some 45 years - roomed next to Ray Franz; Randy Watters probably knew him). They had communion weekly but it was a voluntary thing. It took me 3 visits before I partook with them.
You would be a criminal if you would not be fighting for a better place on earth. .
That's essentially the position of the persons behind the Hedonistic Imperative.
the michael changes post reminded me, how many times have the wt confused jesus with satan?
i know there are a few where first they said the person was jesus then satan then back again to jesus.
anyone know of a complete list?
dfed, a lot of Witnesses during the time when that old light about Romans 13 was being taught endured much persecution. My father was a young Witness then and remembers this all too well.
The Watchtower was more than simply wrong. They were adamant to the point of using that erroneous teaching in an attempt to buttress their argument that they were selected as God's people:
***
w58 7/15 p. 441 Beware that You Do Not Lose Your Place! ***If spiritual Israel, represented today by the remnant, together with their good-will companions are to avoid the disaster that overtook ancient Israel, then they must be obedient to the "superior authorities," Jehovah God and Christ Jesus.
***
w61 3/1 p. 146 The Congregation in the Time of the End ***IDENTIFYING THE CONGREGATION
The evidence is clear that the body of Christian men and women now known as Jehovah’s witnesses has in its more than eighty years of doing God’s will experienced the fulfillment of these and many other prophecies... Their being gathered and growing in the light of truth from the 1870’s to 1918 was a preparing of the chosen ones for the coming of the Lord Jehovah to his temple... But in 1919 they began to be reorganized and restored to the "land" or condition of God’s favor... By this time the understanding of Jehovah’s servants had been cleansed of many incorrect ideas concerning doctrine and their relationship to Jehovah and Christ Jesus as the superior authorities.
