Posts by Cygnus

Anyhoo, the conductor (overseer?) used the everyday illustration of birds we see quite often on the roadside eating up the fleshy parts of road kill. We drive by the same scene every day and every day there is a little more gone from the carcass until one day it is all eaten up. And that, friends, is how Jehovah will dispose of the dead bodies after Armageddon.

Can I get an amen?

12

How did jesus know he was Gods son?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

how did jesus know he was gods son?.

that came to my mind one day when i was on the min.. if jesus was just born like a human how would he know he was the son of god?.

if he remmembered it then from what point?

Cygnus

Hi Amazing,

I don't know if the Society has a strict position on this, but I'm pretty sure that it is taught that Jesus was a propiatory sacrifice based on the principle of life for life, eye for eye, etc. It did not matter that he had a supernatural pre-human existence in heaven. He was 100% human and that is all he was when he walked the earth and was hung on the torture stake, therefore he was the exact equal to Adam. Adam had no pre-human existence (unless you're a Mormon) and yet he was 'perfect' in his flesh, so why would God have to use an angel to become the zygote Christ?

This is really an interesting subject for me. Russell came up with the idea that the Logos was not incarnated as tradition says, but rather his life-force was transmitted into the womb of Mary. Yet the Logos never "died" in any way during that integration into humanity. Then of course you have the Socinian view which states that Christ did not personally exist in heaven before his birth on earth, but was merely an idea in God's mind. I find support for this view in the texts that say Jesus was tested in all things as we ourselves are (what sort of test could you possibly manufacture to tempt a billions of years old person who has spent all that time with his heavenly father in glorious splendor -- Jesus would have had such a greater advantage over Adam or anyone else). Also, just as Paul wrote that the church was "chosen before the foundation of the world" so was the Lamb slain as such. Therefore any expressions that seem to indicate Christ's existence before he walked the earth are merely idioms to express the Jewish idea of pre-existence in heaven -- God's will exists in heaven before it manifests itself on earth. I admire this Jesus because it REALLY makes him human and really subject to temptation and sin -- the JW and orthodox Jesus would have had it much easier.

I have read web pages critical of unorthodox teachings of Jesus because then such a Jesus could have sinned! And that would have turned the universe upside down. They say that since Jesus is God he could not have sinned, his temptations on the mount and such were given as proof-positive that he is God and thus he achieved a greater victory than anyone else could. Blah blah blah blah..... I perfer a more personal, struggling Christ. Honestly, I watched _Last Temptation_ last week and I really felt that if I still had faith, it would have strengthened my faith in Jesus. THAT was a Jesus I could relate to.

12

How did jesus know he was Gods son?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

how did jesus know he was gods son?.

that came to my mind one day when i was on the min.. if jesus was just born like a human how would he know he was the son of god?.

if he remmembered it then from what point?

Cygnus

As we all know (and as JWs are often vilified for) JWs believe that Jesus was not the Messiah until his baptism. In fact, JWs believe that God could have used (yes, used) anyone as a propiatory sacrifice -- it didn't have to be his only son.

When I was a JW, I think I believed that Jesus knew he was something special (thus the accolades given at his conception and birth, and the story of him in the temple as a youth), but he did not realize his commission and true identity until his baptism. I honestly think if I were a Christian that is still what I would believe -- that when Jesus visited John the Baptist, he began to realize his destiny.

The film _The Last Temptation of Christ_ deals extensively with its fictitious Jesus' struggles with his relationship with God, and what God wants from him. The film _Dogma_ also has a couple of interesting scenes where a resurrected apostle and the Metatron are both trying to convince someone who doesn't want to be the 'savior du jour' that Jesus went through the same conflicts ("I don't want to do it, can't you find somebody else?" "That's exactly what Jesus said.").

5

Announcing the Pure Language Network

by RR in

jw
friends

so witnesses online is going offline, and yet another incarnation is coming.

the pure language network.

http://www.purelanguage.net.

Cygnus

I noticed two things.

One, the nostalgic feeling I had when reading the posts was overwhelming. I felt like I was literally listening to Kingdom Hall jabber.

Two, it still seems to be the fad for Witness women to wait until Armageddon to start dieting.

5

Two views of "Basic Doctrine"

by JeffT in

jw
friends

basic doctrines.

the other night a passage in in search of christian freedom caught my eye.

after discussing how the watchtower targets certain doctrinal matters in the earlier stages of its bible study program for new converts, franz makes this observation:.

Cygnus

Well, biblically, I think the JWs do have an awful lot right.

However, when pressed about their basic beliefs, most dubs will invariably respond, "No trinity, no hell, no immortal soul NO THIS NO THAT NO THE OTHER THING.....!"

The JWs thrive on denying the beliefs of others.

2

Anyone remmeber the siamese twin and other dubious

by sleepy in

jw
friends

anyone remmeber the siamese twin and other dubious stories given in talks or from bethal boys on leave?.

the story of the siamese twins coming into the truth was well known to be fraudulent in or area.the tale is basiclly (with lots of other details that i cant remmeber but which make it really silly) that there was in some land a pair of siamese twins one comes into the truth and the other opposes her with the resulting difficulties of being joined to your persecuter.. but on a sunday a brother came from another hall to give the public talk and told this story in all seriousness to the entire congregation, this story took a good five to ten minutes to tell and we all had to sit through with a straight face.. i wonder how many experiences on the assemblies and in the mags are similar in truthfulness?