Posts by onacruse

44

My uncle was found DEAD this morning

by Fire Dragon in

jw
friends

my jw dad called me this morning and told me that he found my jw uncle dead, face-down on the floor in his home.

he's taking it hard.

i was shocked to hear him say that he wanted me to be with the family.

onacruse

FireDragon, you have my sincere empathy. Hope that this tragic loss will draw you and your family even closer together.

10

When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?

by simplesally in

since russell didn't tie the corporation into nice neat religious package and didn't ward off all other religions as evil, when did the practice of disfellowshipping start?.

when did they decided to formulate judicial committees and start reproving, marking and df'ing?

onacruse

The following is from Expanded Biblical Comments, summarizing WTS policies from 1879-1916.

Matthew 18:17

If he shall neglect to hear -- But not sooner. F289; Q104:2 The advice

of these brethren should be followed by both. R5134:3; F289

If the injurious actions continue. R4985:2, 5134:3

In the event of the concurrence of the brethren that the wrong is being

done and of the refusal of the wrong-doer to desist. R5782:5

Even if the witnesses agree with us and the wrong-doer is not corrected,

we are still not at liberty to make mention of the case to others. R3030:3

Tell it -- The elders might constitute themselves into a Board or

Committee and get one of their number to look into the case and see if the

wrong could not be stopped or adjusted. Q479:4

Facts, evil deeds or evil doctrines, and not evil surmisings nor rumors,

are the basis of Scriptural disfellowship. R3035:5

Unto the church -- The consecrated. R2666:3

To patiently hear definite, positive charges of sufficient importance.

R4985:4

Not to be punished but, as a last resort, for reproof and correction.

R3744:6

In the presence of the accused. F415; R4985:4, 4281:5

If it is considered of sufficient importance as concerns himself, or the

Church, or the truth. F291, 292, 415 In the case that the matter had gone

beyond the individual, and had somehow involved the whole congregation.

Q479:4

There must be brought evidence to show that there is really a matter to

come before the Church, and that it is not merely a case of busybodying.

R4985:3

Up to this time, the case should not be discussed outside of these

witnesses. R5409:2

In proportion as they are saints they will desire to say no more to anyone

respecting the weaknesses or sins of anybody. F292

First certifying the facts to the elders. F289

The two witnesses should say to the elders of the Church that they have a

case to present for a hearing, but they should not make charges. R4985:2

The elders should call a special meeting to inform the Church of the case,

and the Church should decide when to call a meeting to consider it. R4985:2

For the one to state his trouble and the other to answer. R4985:4

At no stage of the proceedings should unkind words be permitted. R4985:4

It will be reasonable to expect that the voice of the Church in such a

matter will be supernaturally guided, that truth and righteousness may

triumph. R2666:4

The Church's decision of the question is to be final, binding upon both.

R5134:3, 4985:3

Neglect to hear the church -- By not repenting and reforming. F290

This is the highest tribunal. Brother should not go to law with brother in

the worldly courts, however much he may feel himself aggrieved. R2666:4

If either still have doubts as to the justice of the matter, he will

surely obtain a blessing by giving full and hearty consent to the Lord's

arrangements. R2666:4

The vote of the Church should be unanimous, if possible, ignoring all

partisanship. R4985:4

The administration of discipline is not the function of the elders only,

but of the entire Church. F289; Q479:3

Their advice must not carry with it any penalty whatever. R4985:4; F290

Let him be unto thee -- In carrying out the findings of the Church

court, the matter rests with each individual; each must discern the

justice of the decision for himself. F292

As an heathen -- In that we can no longer have Christian fellowship with

such. R1663:5*

We would treat a heathen with justice and kindness and the love of pity,

but not with the love of affection due to a brother in Christ. R1255:4

Outside of your religious and social company, but not outside of your

love, care and desire to help. (Rom. 12:19,20) R3801:3

Not forbid attendance at meetings. The most would be to withdraw

fellowship, refuse to visit their homes or to invite to our homes, and not

appoint to any office in the class. R5954:3

Lest our continued fellowshipping cause our influence to oppose the truth

and favor the error, and thus make us sharers in the evil being done.

R1255:1

His punishment is not the object, but to secure repentance and reform. F290

And a publican -- He is a brother still, but not in the best standing.

R4985:5

Deprived of any and all manifestations of brotherhood. F290

Not appointing him to any position or honor in the Church. R5782:5,

5134:3, 4985:5

Not to be asked to offer prayer. R4985:5

To be debarred from participation in the Lord's Supper. F474

Treated in the kindly, courteous way in which we would treat any publican

or Gentile, withholding the special rights, greetings or voting

opportunities that belong to the Church. R3745:4

Not to be harshly spoken of even after the separation, just as we are not

to berate or rail against heathen men and publicans. F290

In that we could no longer respect such as we would an honorable man of

the world. R1663:5*

But not injured or treated unkindly in any way. F303; R5134:3, 4985:5

Disfellowshipped until he recognizes his wrong and makes amends to the

extent of his ability. F293

Taking heed to "speak evil of no man." (Titus 3:2) F290

We are to distinguish between avoidance and appointment to honorable

positions in the Church and the still different matter of disfellowship

and cutting off from the body of Christ, the Church. R4318:4

A complete separation from the Church. Until he has made a complete reform he should be thoroughly disowned by the Church. R5275:1

Interesting to note that df'ing then was done by vote of the entire congregation.

26

Why am I here?

by larc in

jw
friends

sometimes i asked myself that question, and sometimes i really don't have an answer to my own question.

i faded from the religion back in 1962 with my dear wife.

there were few books and no internet.

Larc, last night, after many years, I again had the chance to have dinner with AlanF. He is currently incommunicado, but I am sure he would be glad if I shared with you the deep respect he expressed for you.

26

Why am I here?

by larc in

jw
friends

sometimes i asked myself that question, and sometimes i really don't have an answer to my own question.

i faded from the religion back in 1962 with my dear wife.

there were few books and no internet.

onacruse

Jgnat, same for me. Larc replied to one of my very first posts, and I was abashed that anyone who had been on this board so long would even notice me.

See what you've started Larc?

Deepest appreciation,

Craig

26

Why am I here?

by larc in

jw
friends

sometimes i asked myself that question, and sometimes i really don't have an answer to my own question.

i faded from the religion back in 1962 with my dear wife.

there were few books and no internet.

onacruse

You are here because you care for your fellow man. What better reason could there be?

10

Are Jehovah's Witnesses Patriotic?

by Kenneson in

jw
friends

yes they are, according to an editorial in today's milwaukee journal sentinel, written by shawn francis peters.

he takes to task justice scalia, who branded jws as "crackpots," and claims jws have done more than any other group to bolster religious liberty and free speech.

view "court ruling again places jehovah's witnesses as 'patriotic citizens' " at:.

onacruse

Since JWs are non-political, they by definition cannot be either patriots, or even real citizens.

"Patriot" is derived from Gk. pater (="father" in many modern languages) and literally means "a fellow-countryman" in the sense of having a common ancestral bond. The sense of belonging that comes from such a bond carries with it the obligation to support and respond to the needs of such a community. However, JWs proudly assert that they are "earnestly seeking a place of their own" (Gk. patrides, derived from pater) (Heb 11:14 NWT). They thereby reject any patriotic relationship with the other 6,000,000,000 people on this planet.

"Citizen" is derived from Lat. civilis, which embraces the same concepts of involvement with society as the Gk. polis (both Gk. and Lat. meaning "city"). However, JWs proudly assert that "As for us, our citizenship (Gk. politeuma, derived from polis) exists in the heavens..." (Php 3:20 NWT) Again, they categorically reject any sense of citizenry with this world.

"Politics" is derived from the same Greek polis, so JWs are also "non-political" (See the introductory paragraph in every WT mag). This is the very same as saying "not patriots, not citizens." As is well known, "citizenship" was very highly prized in Greek and Roman culture, even being offered as a reward for services rendered to the state. What "service to the state" have JWs ever rendered?

It is incredible that anyone could even imagine that JWs are patriots.

18

ITS JUST THE DEMONS

by ugg in

jw
friends

i just wanted to share this.....i have not been to meetings for a year....one of the elders came to.

our door for my husband....who is an elder.....i am not dis'a or dis'f....just in hiding...(long story).

i do not socialize so seldom if ever see anyone.....he visited for a few minutes then they left together.....that night and for the next 2 weeks i had severe night mares....i would cry and sob so.

onacruse

Hi ugg! You are very brave to share your pain and fear.

Many specialists suggest that our dreams are just a way for our minds to work out unresolved issues in our lives. There is NO reason to think that demons have anything to do with it. IMHO, the only demons in your life are the people around you who add to your struggle.

Wishing the best for you! Keep on fighting.

Craig

24

Question for all Jw.com

by haujobbz in

jw
friends

i dont know if you been asked this before but what made you give up your religious beliefs,i assume that not all on here were jehovahs witnesses so if you were not please say.well i will telll you why i left, i got baptised as a jw 2 yrs ago and then started to notice say 6 months after baptism that the followers didnt really heed the what they were being taught it didnt seem to motivate them in their hearts, to say display genuine love it was more like a routine to them to be at meetings,talk to same ones,read watchtowers,it seemed so mechanical like robots,im not saying this is what caused me leave because i was serving genuinely i was really interested in practising what i preached,but i found it hard because everyone wasnt trying to do the samething.so then gradually i started to question things and then i got the internet last year and was itching to look on these so called apostate sites,you see i wanted to prove these sites wrong but in the end i was proved wrong with things like prophecies,jws past history,etc.

so thats my story

onacruse

Welcome to the board! I was a JW for 40 years, and congratulate you for being so much faster than I was to see reality.

25

How can I make them leave me alone?

by 67mustang in

jw
friends

does anybody know the best way to get jw's off my back.

i live in a small community and i can't just yell at them.

i am getting rather angry and it may come to that however.

onacruse

I'm no lawyer, and regulations vary, but Oregon Revised Statutes, Chapter 933 (1999) allows for up to $1,000 fine against any person who enters property that has been posted by the landowner prohibiting that person's access.

If you post such a notice, be sure that it specifically says "Jehovah's Witnesses," because they may claim that terms like "solicitors" or "salesman" do not apply to them.

18

Invent some problems for JW's

by sleepy in

jw
friends

lets invent some problem for jw's to see how far you can take their rules.

1.siamese twins get baptised.one now get disfellowshipped for apostacy.the witness one ,get counceled by the elders for mixing with apostates.eventualy gets disfellowshipped for too much assosiation with apostate other half.

2.man has sex change, but then becomes witness.is he a brother or a sister?