Posts by Arthur

21

now i'm even more confused...

by Missanna in

ok i started thinking tonight which is always a bad idea after i've had a long, really pressuring, day at work.

but i've been in this sort of confused uncomfortable state lately about whether i believe in god or not.

i finally got past the actual guilt of having these questions because i knew that was just what was drilled into my skull in my past.

I believe in God, and I consider myself a Christian. I went through a period very similar to yours. When I first left the organization, I didn't know what I believed. I was very frustrated, confused, and at times, anxious. I continued to pray for guidance despite my confusion. I now feel somewhat confident in my faith, but realize that I don't know a lot of the answers. I try to avoid dogmaticism and keep an open mind. But, I feel closer to God and a stronger faith than I ever did in the Watchtower.

I think that there is overwhelming evidence that there are spirit forces. I have a very close friend who dabbled in witchcraft many years ago, and she told me of how she had been repeatedly harassed by invisible forces. I have also heard others personally share similar experiences. I think one area that the Bible does provide very good advice is in avoiding all forms of spiritism (mediums, black magic, witchcraft, voodoo, etc, etc.) I have never known or heard of anyone benefiting from practicing these things.

Personally, I do have faith in the Bible, but I don't believe in inerrancy. I believe that many accounts in the Old Testament were allegorical (garden of eden, Noah, Balaam, Jonah, Job, Samson) and intended to be literary works which teach moral lessons. Some of them are obviously mythological and paint God as insecure, jealous, arbitrary, and cruel.

Whatever your jorney takes you, I would be patient. It takes a lot of time. Have you read the book "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Steven Hassan? If you haven't, I strongly recommend it. It does an excellent job in explaining and untangling the indoctrination and mind control that groups like the Watchtower used. This book is a very good starting point. I think the biggest hurdle is overcoming the image of Jehovah as this cruel, angry, punishing God that we were raised with.

The best prayer that I ever uttered was "God, direct me and show me what to do". I feel that I was lead to a wonderful church with wonderful people. They truly manifest Christian love that the Bible talks about. But, that is just me. I realize that you will have your individual path. Your path needs to be your own, and not someone elses.

122

Trolling Apologist vs. Informed Apostate - WHO IS MORE LIKELY TO CHANGE?

by BizzyBee in

jw
friends

in the battle between apologists and apostates, who do you think more often comes around to the other point of view and why?.

imho, apologists (or trolls) are just potential apostates who need a little more time in the oven.

(in other words, they are not fully baked, only "half-baked.

Arthur

When they see the response of an active JW shoot down the false teachings seen here, they are reassured that they have the truth and leave this site.

The only doctrine that I have seen a JW adequately debate is the trinity doctrine. But in terms of the consequential Watchtower teachings (on which the organizational authority rests), JW arguments have been seriously wanting.

Just one example is the doctrine of the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class. I have seen this doctrine thoroughly debunked on this forum time and time again. This core doctrine on which the power of the Governing Body ultimately rests has been shown to be nothing more than a pipe dream. A Faithful Slave "Class" has never existed, but was merely used as the cloak under which a president and board of directors (now, governing body) controlled it's membership without overtly calling attention to themselves.

10

Watchtower Bait and Switch

by WTWizard in

how many times have you seen articles in the asleep magazines about chocolate, coffee, some exotic plant or animal, or something that smacks of entertainment?

why would these articles be in a religious publication in the first place, especially one that is in the process of totally banning all entertainment?.

for one thing, having these articles is supposed to make the religion appear to tolerate and even condone a certain level of entertainment, and even participate to a degree.

Arthur

I heard through the grapevine they are buying some land in Guyana with a basketball court on it and we are all moving down there soon.....woo hoo

"Welcome to Guyana brothers and sisters. Step right up and grab a cup. Humbly partake of the provisions that the Slave Class has provided us. Yes, that's it . . . . . drink up."

6

JW and their version of divine justice

by Anti-Christ in

i never really agreed on their explanation of divine justice.

if you are a homicidal maniac, rapist or if you simply don't go to the jw's meetings, your are going to be hurled in the lake of fire.

i think i'm going to ask some of my jw "friends" what they think about that.

Arthur

The Watchtower's version of divine judgement can be summed up in three words: traditions of men. There can be no "one size fits all" punishment (as related in the Genesis flood account) because there is no such thing as a "modern ark" of salvation. The concept of gaining salvation through organizational membership is not in any way Scriptural; but is an example of a "New Gospel" which the Apostle Paul bluntly rebuked.

11

rude people at the door

by BR25 in

jw
friends

why you were part of the jw faith and you were by yourself at a persons door ,who was really rude toward you, did you ever say anything nasty back instead of saying have a nice day?

also did you ever want to just knock someone out?

any experiences or thoughts of what you wanted to do?

Arthur

I can remember wanting to knock out my field service partners.

10

Watchtower Bait and Switch

by WTWizard in

how many times have you seen articles in the asleep magazines about chocolate, coffee, some exotic plant or animal, or something that smacks of entertainment?

why would these articles be in a religious publication in the first place, especially one that is in the process of totally banning all entertainment?.

for one thing, having these articles is supposed to make the religion appear to tolerate and even condone a certain level of entertainment, and even participate to a degree.

Arthur

Why would these articles be in a religious publication in the first place, especially one that is in the process of totally banning all entertainment?

The rumor that the WTS is going to ban all entertainment keeps swirling around this forum, despite it's being completely false. I don't know who originally started this rumor, but it is totally unfounded, and even rediculous.

27

So I finally broke the ice with my fiancee....

by R.F. in

for those of you that don't know, i've recently had many doubts about the org and realized that i can't just let them go.

the thing was however, that i was nervous as to how my fiancee would react when i would make my doubts known to her.

so.....i finally talked to her today and it went a little something like this.......... i started with us reading together acts.

Arthur

R.F.

The Scripture in Acts is a good one. However, I have no doubt that someone will try to shoot you down with this Scripture. I have heard of Circuit Overseers exempting this Scripture on the basis that it was written to those who were not baptized. They reason that we (baptized Christians) now having come to "an accurate knowledge" through the Faithful Slave do not have any reason for such inquiries.

There are three more Scriptures that you should keep in mind if some enterprising elder or overseer tries to shoot you down on this. You should also share:

1 Thessalonians 5:21,

Hebrews 5:14,

1 John 4:1

These three Scriptures were addressed to annointed believers, and show that the act of testing teachings as to their Scriptural soundness was never something to be abandoned.

94

Why 6 Billion People Deserve to Die in Armageddon

by Leolaia in

jehovah is such a righteous, merciful, loving god -- slow to anger, overflowing with loving kindness and blessing.

yet it somehow bothers many of you that he will shortly execute his judgment on mankind and wipe out 99.9% of the world's population, as if that somehow is supposed to conflict with his loving qualities.

personally, i have no idea why many of you feel this way.

Arthur

The absolute infinite power of the universe could cause every single life form on earth to simply die in the blink of an eye; in a nanosecond - clean, swift, absolute. So why would this power ( who hates violence ) have a need to put on this kind of grand spectacle, where humans die an agonizing death within this big theatric production of destruction and carnage? The truth is, this is the sick, twisted, idealized scenario of sick minds.

There is something pathological about the way the Watchtower creates this type of artwork in an almost jubilant fashion. I don't know how I was able to look at this type of artwork for so many years without having any reaction to it. One day, however, all of the emotion hit me at once. I literally felt sick to my stomach that I had held these beliefs. This portrayal of God is not a portrayal of the infinite power of unrivaled love, mercy, and justice. This portrayal is Satanic.

22

THE NEW SYSTEM WILL BE OVER CROWDED ?

by vitty in

im following along a little from the above topic.

i remember in a book study reading that there are more people alive on the earth today than have ever lived in the past.......6 billion.

so is it true that less than 6 billion people have ever lived up to this century?.

Arthur

I remember in a book study reading that there are more people alive on the earth today than have ever lived in the past.......6 billion. So is it true that less than 6 billion people have ever lived up to this century?

I have never heard this stated before. From what I remember, it was always stated that there have been far more than 6 billion who have lived prior to the current population. Personally, I think that this is true, especially since I do not believe in the "mankind on earth for 6,000 years" teaching.

And if this system goes on for too long with an 8 million increase each year, then wont the earth be too crowded ?

This is an area of speculation where the Society and brothers giving talks have resorted to leaps of immagination and conjecture. First of all the current teaching is that all humans in the New System will stop procreating after the thousand years. As far as land area is concerned, I have heard brothers speculate that Jehovah would cause new land masses and continents to rise up out of the oceans, thereby creating additional land. I have also heard brothers speculate as to how current uninhabitable areas of earth would gradually turn into lush, life sustaining regions.

I found that all of the speculating by the Society as well as of Circuit Overseers in this area was nothing more than fantastical daydreaming and intellectual masturbation.

22

Ex- witness of Jehovah from Mexico

by [email protected] in

been born in mexico, witness of convinced jehovah they even preached when he was very young, memory to me the visit, without knowing what hoped, serious prisoner to a sectarian totalitarian system.

use a translator, i do not speak much english, but it interests to me to talk and to concer people who understand well that she is to be under oppression of human projects.

expelled by revolt for almost 3 years, in spite of to have had good behavior, it has been participating in two dramas in assemblies, regular precursor by 9 long years, graduated as university ( luckyly it studies ), of it not to have made in a under employment very common in the witnesses of latin america.

Arthur

Welcome Irving!

Yes, the translation of the text was a little choppy, but we get the point. When I read Spanish / English translation, I am reminded of the words of the late Chris Farley:

"I am El Nino. All other storms must bow before El Nino. And in case you don't habla espanol; El Nino is Spanish for: 'The Nino'."