Posts by dozy

4

Mormon Apologetic Article - JW comparisons etc

by dozy in

jw
friends

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-mormons-like-me-really-believe.

from an ex-jw perspective , i was quite interested in the above article , which the spectator ( presumably ) felt obligated for legal reasons to publish to allow a response to a rather unfavourable article below.. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-troubling-history-of-mormonism.

the arguments are fairly rehearsed and often used by jw "spokesmen".

dozy

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-mormons-like-me-really-believe

From an ex-JW perspective , I was quite interested in the above article , which the Spectator ( presumably ) felt obligated for legal reasons to publish to allow a response to a rather unfavourable article below.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-troubling-history-of-mormonism

The arguments are fairly rehearsed and often used by JW "spokesmen".

(1) We are not a cult - our leader is Jesus.

(2) Previous doctrines , beliefs and practices are gently dismissed as "old light" ( to use JW parlance ) , what really matters is today.

(3) There is an emotional angle as well - the hope that the writer ( a religious professor in Chester , which must be interesting for his pupils and fellow professors , as unlike the USA it would be unusual for a Mormon to have such a position in a mainstream college ) will see his deceased father.

(4) We are basically just like another church - our beliefs may be pretty crazy ( I'm paraphrasing here ) but so are major Christian beliefs anyway . ( I have some sympathy for this standpoint - bible passages like the parting of the Red Sea , Lot having sex with his two daughters , Noah's ark , Adam & Eve etc are no less nutty or weird than some of the Mormon doctrines and churches like the Catholics are just larger cults , basically. )

The one figure I am puzzling over is his stated figure of 200K Mormons in the UK , which seems to be in line from the figure on Wikipedia. This is from 330 congregations , which would represent over 600 per congregation. This seems a lot , especially as many of those congregations have small halls , or even just meet in a village hall. Although I have known a few Mormons , I have always had the assumption that JWs are much more numerous.

I can't see the UK figures , but looking at the figures from Scotland , the 2011 Census had 4,651 declaring their religion as LDS ( which anecdotally , 1 in approx 1000 , would seem about fair ) but their own figures state 26,536 in 2009 which is a huge difference. Are they basically including pretty much everyone who has ever turned up at a meeting? Or all who are baptised ( bearing in mind that baptism is a very quick process , unlike JWs ) ? Perhaps even dead people ( in accordance with another of their unusual beliefs.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Scotland#Other_Protestant_denominations

20

False memorial partakers deserve to die???

by Jofi_Wofo in

every memorial, much emphasis is placed on making sure that only the (self-proclaimed) anointed partake in the emblems.

this year, however, the speaker at my wife's congregation presented it as an even more serious matter.

he likened it to individuals in ancient israel who sought position of the priesthood despite never been appointed by jehovah.

dozy

One of the elders in my ( former ) congregation had very strong opinions about "fake anointed" ( as he termed them. ). Goodness knows what he is like now they have more than tripled in the last few years! It sounds like this guy was similar & allowed that to flavour his talk. As others have said , normally with a Memorial talk , speakers tend to follow the Society outline really closely.

66

Jw spokesman Says door to door preaching not coming back!

by nowwhat? in

https://youtu.be/uaaztatkhkg.

hope link works.

dozy

The problem is without door-to-door , the whole basis of the religion kind of fizzles away. Half or more of the meeting content is directly or indirectly about doing "the ministry". Ostensibly , it is all about preaching the good news as Armageddon is near. I just can't see that ever being replaced with letter writing or whatever.

Franz relates in his books that when the GB discussed the ( extremely shaky ) scriptural basis of D to D , one of the GB members said ( I'm paraphrasing here ) "if we don't have door-to-door , what will the brothers do? They will do nothing. "

And I would take with a big pinch of salt the "150 contacts a day" on the website. For a start , for a country of 328 million , this represents 0.0016% of the population. Also note how he said was careful to say that this was people who "reach out in some way." A lot will be bogus / timewasters - very few will be actually people requesting bible studies or even having any interest.

I say this as someone who was the service overseer for many years and used to follow up on people who filled in "contact us" slips that were often printed in Kingdom News tracts , Watchtowers etc and forwarded to us by Bethel. We got maybe two or three a year - invariably they were fakes / people putting in their friends' details for a laugh / "opposed" people or local crazies wanting us to call on them etc. I remember one instance when I drove 40 miles to the end of our territory , eventually up a long farm track in a very rural area , to find it had been mailed in by a "born again Christian" type who rejoiced that his sole intention of mailing the slip was to waste 2 hours of my time and gas.

I shared this experience with the CO & he admitted that most congregation secretaries probably just binned the forms - the Society were never bothered and never followed up. And remember that these were people who had to buy a stamp and mail it in - not just spent a minute on a website filling in address details.

25

Just invited to a zoom memorial.

by Overrated in

jw
friends

walked away from the trooth years ago(over 20) my older sister sends me an invite to the memorial via zoom.

i have no interest in jwism at all.

should i ignore or respond?.

dozy

Always hard to know how to respond ( if at all. ) Maybe just say thanks for the invitation - hope the family are well. Or something like that. I guess it depends on how close your relationship is with your sister ( I'm guessing it isn't great , like most of us who have JW family. )

17

Questions I have about the "Ministry School".

by Pallbearer in

i remember that jehovah's witnesses used to have a 2-hour, 2-part mid-week meeting which included a 1-hour "ministry school" followed by a 1-hour "service meeting".

please correct me if i am wrong in any respect but to the best of my memory the ministry school was composed of 4 parts, as follows:.

part 1: an "instruction talk".

dozy

Can't give you any info about the current meeting set-up ( as I have been out for quite a few years ) , but the structure of the school went through various changes - the presumption was that the title "School" was dropped because of potential liability etc issues.

8

It is amazing how old JW books are selling and for a lot

by mickbobcat in

1934 years books 150 to 700, the finished mystery 100 to 300, other books run around 20 to 50 bucks if they are older.

i dumped a ton in the dumpster and wish i had kept them.

i have a small collection of some of the rare ones like millions now living will never die, and can the living talk to the dead, the finished mystery, and the paradise book.

dozy

Back about 12 years ago I was the congregation secretary and decided to have a clear out of some of the old books in our congregation library and some we had inherited from the death of an elderly long time JW in our congregation - I just sold them on Ebay & donated the funds to the congregation. We made about £400 GBP , mainly because the books were in absolutely pristine condition in the most part.

When you actually sit down & read these books - you realise that they are total and utter drivel - the rantings of a delusional man , such as Rutherford or Fred Franz. The Society quotes them very , very selectively ( as ever , look for the .... in their quotations ) - no wonder they aren't available on JW Org.

Really old stuff going back to Russell's time ( like Studies in the Scriptures ) in good condition sells for big bucks. There are some avid collectors , especially in the USA - mostly with Bible Student connections.

29

Newly discovered Dead Sea Scrolls with the tetragrammaton within the Greek text

by dropoffyourkeylee in

big news from israel, some previously undiscovered dead sea scrolls have been found with portions of the ot in greek.

it says the name of god is included in hebrew letters within the greek text.. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/world/middleeast/dead-sea-scrolls.html.

"the new fragments contain verses from zechariah 8:16-17, including part of the name of god written in ancient hebrew, and verses from nahum 1:5-6, both from the biblical book of the twelve minor prophets.".

dozy

This doesn't sound especially encouraging , bearing in mind the Society claims that there is very little change in the bible texts over the centuries.

“We found a textual difference that has no parallel with any other manuscript, either in Hebrew or in Greek,” said Oren Ableman, a Dead Sea Scroll researcher with the Israel Antiquities Authority. He referred to slight variations in the Greek rendering of the Hebrew original compared to the Septuagint — a translation of the Hebrew Bible to Greek made in Egypt in the third and second centuries B.C.
“When we think about the biblical text, we think about something very static. It wasn’t static. There are slight differences and some of those differences are important,” said Joe Uziel, head of the antiquities authority's Dead Sea Scrolls unit.

21

Where do JWs stand on sex toys?

by mickbobcat in

i think we all know that if they are used alone it would be a no no, but what about in a marriage?

are there limits such as vibrators ok but torso with dildo not ok?.

dozy

Pillows aren't approved for singles ( as per "pillowgate" ) , but I think for married couples a kind of "don't ask , don't tell" policy is basically in place as to what they do in the bedroom ( or indeed , any room in the house! ) If it became widely known in the congregation then I'm guessing the elders might take an interest - in my experience , there are usually a couple of elders in most congregations who have a bit of an uncomfortable interest in the sexual activity of congregation members.

11

Strange midweek meeting '' initial call '' demonstration

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

can it get any weirder?

here is a demonstration of a midweek meeting demonstration, showing a sister out in field service talking to a householder.

they are both wearing masks due to covid.

dozy

How are these two women from different households even in the same room?

Hmm - maybe they are in the same household. Haven't you seen the Societies Jade & Neeta videos? Maybe they have moved in as room mates. Platonically , of course!

38

Watchtower Change On Origins from 42,000 Years to the "Day Age" Theory

by Sea Breeze in

does anyone know when and how the change took place?

is the "day age" theory still the current position of watchtower?.

dozy

Not sure they officially abandoned the 49,000 years of creation idea, they just stopped talking about it.

That's a common WT Society tactic - Franz mentions it in one of his books that a GB member ( Schroeder , I think ) if the Society just stop talking about something then the "brothers" soon forget about it. It must be even easier nowadays that the religion is so dumbed down.

Even the 7,000 year long last creative day , which we assume is still a Society teaching , is looking a bit shaky now and getting even more farcical by the minute. According to "WT bible chronology" (lol) , the first 6,000 years ended in 1975 ( hence the famous" Armageddon is nigh , sell your house" etc nonsense of the late 60's / early 70's ) so already over 45 years of the last 1000 "millennial" reign has gone. This also means Adam was alone for at least 45 years. No wonder he was pleased to see Eve!