I found a reference in an old thread (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/215119/1/Is-the-IBSAs-charitable-status-in-the-UK-vulnerable) which links to a government memo from July 2004 which mentions Jehovah's Witnesses along with the Brethren. (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt200304/jtselect/jtchar/167/4061625.htm).
stapler99
JoinedPosts by stapler99
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GOOD NEWS. UK Charity Commisssion; "No presumption that religion is for the public benefit"
by nicolaou ini tweeted this link a couple of days ago but forgot to post it here .
the uk charity commission has refused to renew the charitable status of the plymouth brethren, a cultlike sect similar to the watchtower in so many ways.
as a result, some members of parliament are claiming that the commissions action is a "suppression of religion".
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GOOD NEWS. UK Charity Commisssion; "No presumption that religion is for the public benefit"
by nicolaou ini tweeted this link a couple of days ago but forgot to post it here .
the uk charity commission has refused to renew the charitable status of the plymouth brethren, a cultlike sect similar to the watchtower in so many ways.
as a result, some members of parliament are claiming that the commissions action is a "suppression of religion".
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stapler99
If their decision sticks, they will go after other religions and could have a huge effect. Because of this, I think it is likely it will be overturned. But if they do remove charity status from some religions because of their "cult-like" nature, I think JW's are very likely to be included as well. It's quite possible that this could happen: for example, Scientology has lost recognition as a religion in some countries.
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The VAT- please explain all about that tax to us in the USA
by moshe ini am expecting a vat tax to become the solution to raise revenue in the usa- all the talk from both romney and obama has been holding the line on tax income tax rates-- so everyone will be blindsided by a vat tax..
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stapler99
It is a sales tax that it is collected all the way along the production chain. One benefit of it compared with a sales tax is that you can't get out of it by pretending that a sale isn't a final sale to the customer. Suppose you owned a business and bought computers for your business. With a simple sales tax, you might be able to avoid tax on the computers, but then use them for personal use, and this would be hard for the tax authorities to detect.
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New 16 page WT & AWAKE available on jw.org
by St George of England inneedless to say it's the same old rubbish.
the wt has the usual 'doom & gloom front cover, end of the world, fireball, people running in panic.... george.
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stapler99
Have they just run out of people who can write articles? The amount of whitespace makes me think of a student who increases the font size or double spaces to make their essay look longer.
The experience is hilarious. A friend offered him a cigarette, and before he knew it he was using and dealing hard drugs!
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The WTS has said the FDS predates 1919
by blondie inw04 3/1 pp.
8-12a slave who is both faithful and discreetwho really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics?matthew 24:45.. on tuesday afternoon, nisan 11, 33 c.e., jesus disciples raised a question that has profound meaning for us today.
they asked him: what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?
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stapler99
2004 wasn't that long ago. I can imagine that many witnesses would still have this issue and might refer to it to do research. What happens when they discover that all of this reasoning has been abandoned? The chances are that the explanations in the new literature will be worse and will not attempt to refute their previous arguments. It will not look progressive.
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OVER 450 JW LAWSUITS, COURT CASES, ETC SUMMARIZED: BLOOD, CUSTODY, EMPLOYEE
by West70 inover 450 jehovah's witnesses related lawsuits, court cases etc.
divorce, blood transfusions, and other legal issues affecting children of jehovah's witnesses.
-- approximately 75 jw child custody - divorce court cases.. .
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stapler99
Bumped thread. I just came across this website as well. It is full of experiences going back to the 1940's.
http://jwdivorces.bravehost.com/decisions/1950sCases.html
GRIESHABER v. GRIESHABER was a 1958 Missouri appellate court decision which stands as a testament to the tens of thousands of marriages that have been destroyed after Jehovah's Witnesses came door-knocking while the husband was at work. Although this specific case should be interpreted within the environmental context of the 1950s, there are thousands of divorces that occurred in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, and right up to 2011, whose names could be interchanged with the Grieshabers.
Elzie Grieshaber and Alice Mae Grieshaber were married in August 1948. While this was Elzie's first marriage, it was Alice Mae's third marriage, and she had two children from a prior marriage. Elzie owned a small farm about six miles outside Saint Genevieve, Missouri. The farm was about a mile off the main road, and the closest neighbor was about a half mile away. Alice Mae was used to living on a farm -- probably having been reared on such, and doing so during her first two marriages. Alice Mae was perfectly aquainted with Elzie and his farm before she agreed to marry Elzie. Alice Mae was a typical farm wife who raised a garden, and helped Elzie with raising the crops and feeding the animals.
In addition to caring for the farm, Elzie was a iron worker. Elzie regularly traveled to the greater St. Louis area to help erect steel frame buildings -- some as tall as 30 stories or more. This was dangerous, exhausting work that required Elzie to leave home around 4:30 AM and return around 6:30 PM. In addition to being a hard worker, Elzie was a moral, non-drinking man who took his family to the Methodist Church on Sundays. The couple soon had two children of their own, and in 1954, Elzie constructed a new home on the farm for his expanding family.
In 1955, several strangers stopped at the Grieshaber's farm, spoke to Alice Mae about the Bible, and either sold or left some Bible literature. Typically, they intentionally failed to identify themselves as "Jehovah's Witnesses". However, their identity quickly became known as those JWs repeatedly returned in their efforts to convert the naive farmwife. Alice Mae became the "backcall", and thereafter the "bible study" of Kenneth Smedstad and Dorothy Smedstad, and slowly but surely Alice Mae became a JW convert.
Knowing little about Jehovah's Witnesses, and the consequences of associating with them, Elzie initially was cordial with the Smedstads after they started to also visit when he was at home. Elzie even drove Alice Mae and the children to a few Sunday afternoon meetings at the closest Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses. However, the true nature of the beast gradually displayed itself. Not only did Elzie gradually notice a change in his wife as she spent more and more time studying WatchTower materials, attending meetings, and pestering him about such, but one day while the Smedstads were visiting, one of the Grieshaber children accidentally kicked Kenneth Smedstad's leather briefcase. Smedstad blurted out, "I don't see why people don't make their kids mind, ... ." (This editor has personally experienced numerous similar instances over the decades of JW Elders sitting in my own home speaking down to me in a similar fashion. The only reason those JWs walked away unscathed was because I was a "true believer" at the time.) Being a smarter, stronger person than I, Elzie Grieshaber quickly told Kenneth Smedstad that he was not going to come into his home and tell him how to raise his children. The Smedstads got up and left. However, little did Elzie Grieshaber know, he had won the battle, but lost the war. (Interestingly, during the divorce hearing, Kenneth Smedstad testified that this incident never happened.)
Thereafter, the JWs had no further chance converting Elzie, but Elzie still did not fully understand the consequences of Alice Mae's conversion. While Elzie nagged Alice Mae about her conversion, he grudgingly drove her and the four children to the Kingdom Hall on Sunday afternoons, while the family ceased attending church on Sunday mornings. Elzie specifically told Alice Mae that he didn't want his own two children to join the JWs, because he wanted them to live a normal childhood at home and at school without all the burdens of the WatchTower religion.
Things came to a head in June 1956 when Alice Mae wanted to attend a weekend WatchTower Convention being held in Farmington, Missouri. Elzie told her that she could go, but that she could not take the two younger children. However, Alice Mae left with all four children when the Smedstads came to pick her up. That evening, when Elzie got home from work and discovered noone home, the enraged father went after his own two children. Arriving at the convention, Elzie finally located Alice Mae and the children. Elzie walked right up to her during the program and demanded his two children. When Alice Mae refused to allow him to take the youngest, he slapped her. The ironworker also challenged any of the watching JW Males to try to stop him. No one tried. When Elzie got home, he burned Alice Mae's WatchTower literature. Alice Mae spent that night with the Smedstads and attended the next day's convention program. The Grieshabers had it out that next night, but things calmed down thereafter.
At some point, Elzie had ordered the Smedstads to stay off his property, but the Smedstads continued to visit Alice Mae when Elzie was at work. However, one day in August 1956, the Smedstads made the mistake of coming to the farm on a day when Elzie did not have to work. Elzie grabbed Kenneth Smedstad by the shirt collar, shook him, and threatened to beat his arse. Alice Mae grabbed Elzie long enough for Smedstad to run to his car. Unbelieveably, the Smedstads called to Alice Mae, and she left with them, before returning later in the day. Thereafter, Alice Mae would continue to meet with the Smedstads in their car out on the public roadway.
On September 5, 1956, the Smedstads helped Alice Mae and the four children leave the Grieshaber home. As has been done time and again, the Smedstads took Alice Mae and the four children to the home of other JWs who Elzie did not know. Elzie eventually learned their whereabouts through one of Alice Mae's ex-husbands -- the father of the two oldest children. Elzie tried to get Alice Mae to return home, but she refused. Shortly thereafter, Alice Mae filed a lawsuit for separate maintenance claiming "constructive abandonment" in that Elzie had made her life as his wife intolerable. Elzie responded with a cross suit for a divorce. After a trial, the trial court denied both actions, and Alice Mae appealed. In June 1958, the Missouri Court of Appeals affirmed the trial court's ruling, stating in part:
"We are convinced that prior to plaintiff's affiliation with Jehovah's Witnesses the home life of plaintiff and defendant was serene and surrounded with the happiness described by the defendant. What we have to say in this opinion is not to be characterized as an objection by us to plaintiff's affiliation with her newly found religious group. She was free to follow her religious beliefs in any manner or with any group she pleased. This was the attitude of her husband. While he tried to dissuade her from attending the meetings of this group, he nevertheless took her to the meetings and this continued after the assembly incident and it seems until the separation. The evidence clearly demonstrates that the only real objection defendant had was the effort of plaintiff to raise the two children born of this marriage under the influence and teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Defendant resented her efforts and the efforts of the Smedstads in this direction. In connection with the Smedstads it must be said that they knew and acknowledged in their testimony that defendant did not want them on the farm. Despite this knowledge they persisted in calling on the plaintiff. It is our thought that under the circumstances they should have been satisfied with plaintiff's presence at the meetings.
"As to the slapping incident at the assembly meeting, defendant had told plaintiff not to take the two children, but she stubbornly followed her own desires. Defendant had as much to say as plaintiff about the religious training of the children. While we do not approve of the slapping of his wife, we do believe that plaintiff's action in taking them to the meeting and in squeezing the child in an attempt to keep it from the defendant provoked the slapping incident and that defendant's action under the circumstances was excusable. Nor was the occurrence of the following night of any consequence. Plaintiff said defendant did not strike her but merely raved, cursed and shook her. Defendant denied that he shook plaintiff and denied that he raved at or cursed her. We defer to the trial court's finding on this occurrence.
"The Smedstads must have known they were causing an estrangement between this husband and wife, because they called at the farm in August with the knowledge that defendant did not want them on the farm. Their visit on this occasion precipitated the rather vigorous warning given to them by the defendant. However, the Smedstads were not to be discouraged for they continued to visit plaintiff on the road outside the farm and aided plaintiff in her departure from the home. We see nothing wrong in defendant's conduct on the occasion of the August incident at the farm. It was an effort, as he said, to keep someone else from taking over in his own home."
Non-JW readers should understand that not only have there been tens of thousands of "Grieshabers" over the decades, but that such is due to the fact that there have existed thousands of "Smedstads" over the decades. There is one local JW Elder that I have known only sporadically over the years, who has been an instigator in at least 5 divorces of which I know, and I have no doubt that if I wanted to update my info with local JWs, that number might very well be doubled.
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RANT! Old JWs make me so mad!
by lil.lady.03 inya know what!
i'm tired of being polite and nice to jws.
esp when they try to shame you to your face with a smile.
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stapler99
The religion as a whole, and some of the people in it, are bullies, plain and simple! Try not to let it get to you.
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What REALLY Convinced You To Leave/Lose Faith in JWs?
by Recovery inid like to know what personally convinced you jws are wrong about a particular doctrine/practice, that they are not gods true.people and/or what made you leave emotionally/physically.
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stapler99
Discussing doctrinal issues with my parents, and when they couldn't address my points they started attacking my motives. As they had attacked the motives before of people we spoke to in the field ministry who wouldn't agree, I realised that this argument was nonsense.
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What did you do with all your old publications?
by Dark Fader inso we had spent years building our "theocratic library" of bound volumes, books and other materials.
personally, i boxed everything, taped the boxes closed and threw them in a dumpster at a construction site.. i did actually feel bad though.
that was a lot of paper which could have been recycled!.
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stapler99
I carried them to the recycling centre. I saw getting rid of the weight as a metaphor, a kind of ritual if you will to help me move on. I don't know if it had an effect.
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No more 3-day DCs starting in 2013?
by respectful_observer inapologies if there is another recent thread on this, but i have heard from 4 different people in 3 different geographic areas (including someone who does advance work for the dcs), that beginning in 2013 the three day dc program will be replaced by a second two-day circuit assembly.
some people were passing the info along like a secret, others seemed to think that everyone already knew.. if everyone in j-dub land is already talking about this, how is it not all over this forum??.
anyway, can anyone confirm or deny?.
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stapler99
Obarac, are you talking about Iceland?