i'll rephrase that so not to appear so us-centric.
how are you or how did you ring in 2007?.
the last few years have been very low key.
There must be something in the air this week, FO and AS :) I'm also going out with someone I just met last week. Not quite as classy as Frozen's gala, but just a local Drink & Drown thing. Free breakfast and taxi ride home... something new for me, anyway.
And yeah, he's ... hot. And a gentleman. Woooo!
Happy New Year!!
lesson 1.2 is here:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/20/126529/1.ashx.
i was going to save this subject for the subject of long term relationships, but it seems that it needs to be addressed before dating starts.
So, the next time you think about bringing a woman romantic gifts to a first date (or even a third date), imagine that you're giving this woman whom you barely know a plate of steak seasoning.
Hey Nos,
This is soooo true and I've had it happen to me. God is it annoying! I can't remember which of your other 'lessons' this was in -- about bringing flowers and springing for a $100 dinner on the first date. I felt stifled, yet obligated to see that evening through to the end. It was a nightmare date from the moment he walked in the door with 6 red roses... our first meeting/date. We went to see a movie, and throughout the whole thing, he was pawing at my hand. He'd grab it, then do this weird squeezing... 'thing'. Creeped me out. The movie was over a bit after nine, and I was home by 9:30 -- three hours after the date had started. Any and everything he *could* have done wrong (at least for me), he did. I don't plan on seeing him again...
Contrast it with the guy I just met Thursday night. He's independent, doesn't "need" me, or any other woman, but genuinely enjoys hanging out with me. And it's reciprocated because he hasn't bombarded me with "steak seasoning". A bit of "kino" -- the first night we ment, some other dickweed was sitting on my other side being an ass, but my guy reached over and just touched my side. Sort of an "I'm here..." touch, but it established trust on some sort of level. We've been out every night since, and it's been just lovely. :)
Anyways, just thought I'd back up some of what you've been saying here.
~merfi
has anyone ever had to confess their sins to the elders...left out some of the details or "other gross" sins...but wondered if you were truly forgiven of your sins?
or was reproved and given back your priviledges but knew that you didn't tell everything.
how did you feel afterward?
Gawd I hated that back room...
The first time I went in, I didn't tell them everything... cuz I was continuing to do my bad stuff. Later, I had a concience attack and did go in and confessed it all. Down to the last squicky detail they wanted. :( I was DFd, even though I was emptied and hurting inside, fully repentant. I guess I felt like Jehovah had forgiven me but the 'men' hadn't... it was a little mixed up at that time. So for my RI meeting... I had gone back to doing some 'bad stuff' (ok, it was some big fornicatin', I'll just say it! lol) but wanted RI sooo bad because I missed my friends. So I lied. Got RI anyway. It was at that time that a little lightbulb went off -- how could the elders, who have this holy spirit thing, let me back 'in' if I was still doing stuff jehovah wouldn't approve of and LET me back 'in' for. hmm... could there NOT be HS here?? hmm...
The next time I went in, doing fornicatin' again, I confessed it all. Again. Ok, most. But I felt bad about everything -- and I guess I thought it was the whole feeling and hurting heart that mattered, and that's what the HS was supposed to somehow convey to the elders in the JC. Guess not.... They treated me so badly. Broke me down into a little pile of pieces of self-esteem. I DAd a few days after that -- couldn't do this 'being judged by men' thing anymore
~merfi
check this out (hope you have a strong stomach .
from the ex:.
also, how are the kids handleing the holiday thing....for real....and do you really feel that is what you believe in, it just worries me......i havent said anything cuz its your choice, it is just that i wish you would come back.....move to omaha, and get into a diff congre, they would embrace you, they really would, .........heck, they embraced me after all the crap i did and fell and got back up.......i do see the good in you........ .
just one question tho, how come you bothered to get reinstated if you were gonna da yourself? sorry i know its not mauch to do with what you're saying i was just curious!
Hi Cordelia.
I didn't know that I was going to DA... I was DF in Oct 03, Reinstated in Oct 04. 2005 was kind of a weird year... still doing stuff I "shouldn't" have been doing (per JW Pharisee rules) and was going through a lot of crap with a 'rebound' relationship going bad. That crapped out in Dec '05 and I was a bit of confused til I approached the elders about all my bad stuff in February, expecting forgiveness and all that. Instead, I got 4 hours of how bad I'd been (they dug up crap from 1990 to show a "pattern"... WTF?) and that I was unworthy of life... and so on. It was kinda like a lightbulb (new light. hehe) went off in my head and I could almost instantly see this horrible cult for what it was. Nobody deserved to be treated like I was and I wasn't going to play their stupid games anymore. So after they 'dismissed' me and said they needed to deliberate (they were talking about rescinding my RI. Legalistic halfwits, I tell ya...) I went home and wrote out everything that had been bothering me the three years before that time that they'd been breathing down my neck. It ended up a 1200 word DA letter. I handed it in 4 days later, snubbed an elder that requested I meet with them after the meeting (that was the best moment of my life... saying "no" to an elder) and haven't talked to any of them since.
Ok, more than you asked....I get to rantin'....
Going to use my 30-minute window! Juni --
You know when I first read your post - that line stood out. It was being patronizing. Has he treated you in a condescending way while you were married?
I have a question Merfi - Was your ex ever DFed for his adultery? or did he say what he had to and then move on to a different cong.?
That line stood out for me, also. Like I care that HE sees the good in me. I think that's why I dedicated a whole paragraph in my reply to that. It just irked me beyond what I can even express. Very patronizing, as you said. He no longer matters to me and what he thinks of me matters even less. He was always somewhat emotionally manipulative when we were married, this doesn't really surprise me to see him write it.
No, he was never DF'd. He did exactly as you said -- did his JC where he got PR, then promptly headed out the doors of the KH and drove to the floozy's. He didn't go to much for meetings after that, kinda moved here and there for about a year then finally landed in Omaha. Where they "embraced" him. (*gag* )
~merfi
check this out (hope you have a strong stomach .
from the ex:.
also, how are the kids handleing the holiday thing....for real....and do you really feel that is what you believe in, it just worries me......i havent said anything cuz its your choice, it is just that i wish you would come back.....move to omaha, and get into a diff congre, they would embrace you, they really would, .........heck, they embraced me after all the crap i did and fell and got back up.......i do see the good in you........ .
((((((((merfi))))))))
My ex wanted to get back together too. I told her I'd think about it and I did. She tossed me aside and I moved on.
(((Abandonded)))) back at ya. Exes suck. We nearly reconciled about the time I was DF (I think he was preying on my lack of friends, support etc). I actually was offered a job in Omaha and was using the weekend to think it all over. Over that weekend, I used the keylogger I'd put on my computer ( the ex had been there for some reason or another that escapes me right now) and got into his email. And the floozy's email. Yup, still going strong. Didn't take the job, didn't move to Omaha, didn't get back with the ex. I don't share well. ~merfi
check this out (hope you have a strong stomach .
from the ex:.
also, how are the kids handleing the holiday thing....for real....and do you really feel that is what you believe in, it just worries me......i havent said anything cuz its your choice, it is just that i wish you would come back.....move to omaha, and get into a diff congre, they would embrace you, they really would, .........heck, they embraced me after all the crap i did and fell and got back up.......i do see the good in you........ .
ok... here is my reply. I haven't hit "send" yet...
__________________________________________________________________
I will reply to your email positively, despite it pissing me totally off.
The kids have "handled" the holidays quite nicely, having voluntarily taken part in anything holiday-related
activities they themselves chose. I emphasize "chose" as I've repeatedly given them them choices -- take part, or don't take part; either way, they had my support. We haven't addressed any of the 'religious' aspects of the holiday as I haven't any use for 'religion' right now, having been burnt by an overbearing, controlling and judgemental cult that is more a representation of the Pharisees they condemn with their hundreds of literature-based "laws" than the loving, accepting and forgiving Jesus whom they claim to follow, as you know. Instead, we celebrated with "pretties", friends and family, and have embraced the spirit of love and giving -- which is how I was raised and am therefore demonstratating as what *I* feel it's "all about". I don't "believe" in Christmas in the way you are asking. I think I explained that above. Just as I don't elaborate on the religious aspect of Christmas, neither do I condemn or speak badly of the JWs and their NOT celebrating.
Something that *really* doesn't set well with me is your comment about seeing the 'good' in me. Just who are you to judge this? *I* know I'm "good", but it took getting out of the JW religion and away from the condemnation of the elders and the conditional friendships of the 'love among themselves' "friends" to find it. I will NEVER go into those bonds again -- my mind and my heart, my beliefs and feelings have been freed. There is no going back. As for moving? Please. No way am I uprooting my family,
leaving my haven m my career, my friends (the ones that I can be completely myself with, tell anything to and NOT have them run to the 'elders' about it) and the closeness I have with them and my family to go back to some cult whose web of control and judgement reaches worldwide.
You will, I'm sure, follow the
script you've been indoctrinated with and tell me that "there is nothing else out there in the world", "where will you go?", "you can't be truly happy"... and so on. But the truth of it is, I've never been happier . "Out here" I can breathe . No longer do I have to live with a carrot dangling in front of me and a whip at my ass. No longer do I have to worry about trying to live up to impossible standards and reach unattainable 'goals'. No longer am I being judged by and accountable to a bunch of men who have no clue about love, forgiveness and most importantly -- kindness and compassion.
It matters not to me if a different congregation would 'embrace' me after all my "screw ups". Firstly, they were only "screw ups" according to the JW "rules", once again. And really, the only thing I did "wrong" was to be myself. And for THAT reason, going to a different congregation would change nothing. I no longer believe what the JW teach. And even if I believed *some*, I'd be expected to believe *all* and not ever question, just blindly believe or live in fear of my doubts or non-complian
ce being discovered . The way that I would be treated in any congregation is not in the least appealing. I would be accepted only if I gave the appearance of living up to the standards and expectations set out in the literature, in summary, not being true to myself.
If you're worried about the kids, talk to them. See what is on their minds. I've noticed nothing but happiness the last several months. If you see the opposite when they're there, it could be because they are somewhat scared of talking to you about it. They don't want to hurt you by you knowing they're partaking in many activites you wouldn't approve of, based on the JW teachings. They have been offered choices, religiously speaking. They're exploring, questioning, learning and experiencing. Without those opportunities, their own true-to-themselves choice can't be made. If at some point, they ask to go to a meeting I'll take them.
Comparably , if they wish to go to church with a friend, they will be allowed that as well.
No doubt your knowing that I've turned my back on what you feel I should "know is right" is freaking you out. That is because you have never known anything but the JW religion and couldn't possibly understand. It's like the community of people in the movie The Village -- they were told all their life that it was bad and dangerous 'out there' and to 'stay in the village'. They knew nothing different. Yet when one escaped, it was NOT the 1800's and there were indeed helpful, friendly people on the outside and a harmless and very enjoyable life. They were lied to in order to remain under the control of the village's leaders.
The parallels are blinding, but being forbidden to investigate the history of JW and the 'changing light', you'll never understand.
I did try to believe -- I felt that if I followed the 'rules', somehow the faith would follow. In reality, it never did. But truthfully, I'm thankful for that as it's allowed me to heal from it that much easier.
If there is an undertone of anger to this, it's not for the reaons you're probably rationalizing in your head, but for many wasted years. Wasted Christmases with my family, wasted birthday celebrations including missed smiles of joy, wasted time to be together. All things condemned by the WTS but are in reality so full of love and joy that it's just plain sad that they are against the Pharisaical rules. I can never regain those celebrations and times together and it's a huge regret to me. So all I can do is what I have been doing -- moving forward, for every step forward is one more away from the control I was at one time under. In reality, I'm actually sad for you. You've never known, and unless you're more of a thinking person that I'm aware of, you never will know, the warmth of unconditional friendships, the support of family with no strings attached and the freedom to be true to yourself.
So THAT is how I'm doing.
check this out (hope you have a strong stomach .
from the ex:.
also, how are the kids handleing the holiday thing....for real....and do you really feel that is what you believe in, it just worries me......i havent said anything cuz its your choice, it is just that i wish you would come back.....move to omaha, and get into a diff congre, they would embrace you, they really would, .........heck, they embraced me after all the crap i did and fell and got back up.......i do see the good in you........ .
How are the kids doing Merfi?? How are you doing w/all of this? Any doubts about leaving the JWs?
Hey Juni :)
We are all doing absolutely wonderfully. Really. The kids have embraced Christmas as though they've done it forever. I wasn't raised JW, but converted in '89 or so to marry the now-ex. So I was raised with a Christmas along the lines of family, food and pretties. We weren't terribly religious, so that part of Xmas wasn't celebrated -- maybe just mentioned. So having been raised that way, that's sort of how I presented it all to the kids. I'm pretty sure they're doing ok with it all as I've overheard them talking among themselves about "what are we going to get mom? Grandma? etc...". They ask if they can "turn on the pretties" and remark at how "festive" the table etc looks. Stuff they think of on their own, without me pushing them. Actually I've not pushed anything at all... and have told them now and then throughout this year that any time they want to go to a meeting, to just let me know and I'd take them. So they've had choices and options, and have always chosen the non-JW.
As well, the girls have started Methodist youth group. My oldest is considering taking the Confirmation class. Again, I'm not pushing but letting them explore what's out there. I have no use for religion at this point, but if they do then I'm 100% supportive of what they choose. If it's Methodist, fine. If they want to go to JW, fine. I hope that I'm teaching them tolerance and freedom of choice -- two huge things NOT present in JW. And I think they're seeing the difference already.
The situation with the ex, in short form: We were married in '90, he ran off with a floozy (ok, I kicked his cheating ass out) in '02-'03, we were divorced in '04. He flaked on meetings for a couple years, moved to Omaha where the "embraced" him. (*puke*) In the meantime, I was DF'd in '03, RI in '04 and DA'd my happy butt out of there in Feb of this year. We still talk some, but usally about the kids and when we're going to meet with them etc. Normal "divorced parents" stuff. His parents are JW. Mine are not. So that's that situation. :)
I still haven't decided if I'm going to write back or not. I may take each of his sentences and work with them. I know that if I come across as negative or defensive in any way, he'll jump all over that like a good little brainwashed JW does. I can hear the script already, which he has down pat. This whole thing makes me just mad... who is he to judge the "good" in me. Hell, *I* know I'm "good", but it took getting out of the judgemental JW to find it. No way am I uprooting my family and my nest and leaving an awesome job to go back to some freaking cult. I will NEVER go into those bonds again -- my mind and my heart, my beliefs and feelings have been freed. There is no going back.
Thanks for your replies. I'm slowly defusing... ;)
~merfi
check this out (hope you have a strong stomach .
from the ex:.
also, how are the kids handleing the holiday thing....for real....and do you really feel that is what you believe in, it just worries me......i havent said anything cuz its your choice, it is just that i wish you would come back.....move to omaha, and get into a diff congre, they would embrace you, they really would, .........heck, they embraced me after all the crap i did and fell and got back up.......i do see the good in you........ .
Check this out (hope you have a strong stomach ) Any ideas for replies?
From the ex:
also, how are the kids handleing the holiday thing....for real....and do you really feel that is what you believe in, it just worries me......i havent said anything cuz its your choice, it is just that i wish you would come back.....move to omaha, and get into a diff congre, they would embrace you, they really would, .........heck, they embraced me after all the crap i did and fell and got back up.......i do see the good in you.......
~merfi
what is rated the best??
what do you like?
For me, just my own personal opinion, my jeep is the best thing in the whole world to drive. It's so versatile (top on, top off, doors on, doors off) and can go pretty much anywhere I want to go. It's my therapy at times.
~merfi
when i was a jw, i always wondered what happened to people who got df'd and left 'the truth'.
i always figured they were living in the gutter or living a sinful, selfish life.. i was wondering if sending a pleasant note in a christmas card would let some know that life on the outside isn't the condemned life they think it is.
i know that the christmas card will show that 'i have fallen that far', but i liked the dig in sending it.. i live 1500 miles from my old home so no one knows my situation.
I'm kind of mulling this over right now. I'm in the same town as the cong of JWs that I DA'd from. I've been here since 1990 or so, so a lot of history. I would LOVE to send them out (they're all addressed...not stamped) to show them that I'm happy. :) They'll think, like you said, that I've 'fallen that far', but I don't really care. I'm still deciding my *reason* for sending cards -- to genuinely express Xmas greetings (I sent about 80 to non-JW, so it's not like I'd be singling out the JW) or to kick them where I know it will hurt them. I think I'm leaning towards the latter, so for that reason, I probably won't send them. I'm trying to be positive about this whole escape from the cult thing -- enjoying my new life, being happy, guilt-free and so on. And doing something I know is really, deep down, negative, sort of goes against that.
As well, if I were to send the cards, they would tell the ex and then the ex would crawl all up my kids' butts and not mine. Which I think is just plain mean and stupid (the kids are 9-13). I don't want them to go through that. (theyr'e going to get enough of an earful tomorrow when the ex comes up to my town to take them out for lunch and sees my decorations and the breeding-when-I'm-not-looking pile of presents under the tree).
So, although I'd love to send cards and within a couple of them, a special note (a 'thank you' to the elders in my JC that showed me the 'love'... for without that 'love' I'd have never left?!), I'll probably just toss them and leave it alone.
Your situation is a bit different though. You're 1500 miles away from those you'd send cards to, so I'd say go for it. :)
~merfi
